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| Main / American Football in real life / The Wait... Search Forum | |
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Buddy Ryan
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posted: 2017-07-07 13:13:35 (ID: 100109367) Edits found: 3 Report Abuse |
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QB is really important for sure, but I dont sign off on the idea that a front office should just throw high draft picks and cap space at the position until it finds its guy. Pace wanted to move up for QBs in previous years too, so it was not just about trubisky, but more out of principle I'm afraid.
If he pans out, everything is great of course. but there are other ways to build a contender and I really admire what Elway does in Denver: Building a strong roster, great D, become a desired destination for FAs and dont panic at the QB position just because you "have to have one now" - had they followed that logic, they'd be stuck with Osweiler now. And Elway was a QB himself, so its really interesting how he is evaluating the position. the Raiders also didnt go all in on Carr, they picked Mack first and patiently waited for their shot. In Seattle, Schneider and Carroll built a really strong roster with one of the all time great pass Ds before signing Matt Flynn (and drafting Wilson). on the other hand, teams that got their QB, but not much else - Colts, Saints, Chargers come to mind - are they really that much better off? A QB might be the fastest way to make a leap forward, but you also need the other pieces (great D, OL) to be successful - and then you have a really good environment to develop a QB like Dak in Dallas. Last edited on 2017-07-07 13:28:48 by Buddy Ryan |
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MonsterT95
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posted: 2017-07-10 08:30:25 (ID: 100109498) Report Abuse |
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Buddy Ryan wrote:
on the other hand, teams that got their QB, but not much else - Colts, Saints, Chargers come to mind - are they really that much better off? A QB might be the fastest way to make a leap forward, but you also need the other pieces (great D, OL) to be successful - and then you have a really good environment to develop a QB like Dak in Dallas. The Chargers had some of the best roster about a decade ago ( Rivers but they had : Tomlinson & Sproles at RB, Jackson at WR, Gates at TE, and very, very good OL, Jammer at CB, Weddle at FS...) but never went to a SB, so you need good coaching too. (and a little bit of luck) That's where the Saints come to mind : Consistently top 5 (passing) offense good coaching, and they got their 1st championship that way, so they're sticking with it. And the Colts, well, since GOAT left, they had a very different strategy : they looked at the division, basically said " 2 of these teams sucks, the other don't know how to get an NFL QB nor to win 2 playoff games in a row, so just let that Elite QB take the field and watch him get the division title." Then they cumulated both flaws : bad coaching, bad roster (& roster decisions). |
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Buddy Ryan
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posted: 2017-07-10 12:23:24 (ID: 100109511) Edits found: 3 Report Abuse |
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MonsterT95 wrote:
Buddy Ryan wrote:
on the other hand, teams that got their QB, but not much else - Colts, Saints, Chargers come to mind - are they really that much better off? A QB might be the fastest way to make a leap forward, but you also need the other pieces (great D, OL) to be successful - and then you have a really good environment to develop a QB like Dak in Dallas. The Chargers had some of the best roster about a decade ago ( Rivers but they had : Tomlinson & Sproles at RB, Jackson at WR, Gates at TE, and very, very good OL, Jammer at CB, Weddle at FS...) but never went to a SB, so you need good coaching too. (and a little bit of luck) That's where the Saints come to mind : Consistently top 5 (passing) offense good coaching, and they got their 1st championship that way, so they're sticking with it. And the Colts, well, since GOAT left, they had a very different strategy : they looked at the division, basically said " 2 of these teams sucks, the other don't know how to get an NFL QB nor to win 2 playoff games in a row, so just let that Elite QB take the field and watch him get the division title." Then they cumulated both flaws : bad coaching, bad roster (& roster decisions). yes, true, I oversimplified here, things are of course more complex. the chargers did have a great roster until a few years ago, but since then they have not been a contender despite their elite QB - Rivers can only do so much by himself. the saints did get their title in the one year their D created a lot of turnovers, but was then blown up by bountygate and age, and since then they have to deal with huge cap problems and bad defenses - and couldnt get very far despite having a HOF QB and a great HC. like you said, the colts just did very bad in FA and the draft since they got Luck - and I totally agree that coaching has to be considered an important factor too. I did not mean to shit on those teams in any way (I'm rooting for the bears after all  , I just wanted to point out that finding your franchise QB (which most front offices dont manage to do), isnt the solution for every problem. having a great coaching staff that works in sync with the front office might be as or even be more valuable - and such a staff is really hard to keep together, except for the ever consistent patriots... Last edited on 2017-07-10 12:59:53 by Buddy Ryan |
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Buddy Ryan
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posted: 2017-07-10 12:57:11 (ID: 100109513) Edits found: 2 Report Abuse |
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sorry for coming back to the bears
 (everyone who is annoyed please just ignore and stop reading now)
where I dont agree with more optimistic fans and I guess the organization itself is that we are "really close" as Fox and Pace keep pointing out. now if you really think the bears D without injuries could be a Top 10 unit with an about average offense as it is, I understand the "we need a QB now to maximize our window" sentiment. but the bears werent the only unlucky team last year and regression to about average luck with injuries and close games also isnt guaranteed. and we just released Cutler - I really feel people are underestimating the ensuing drop off with Glennon. Jeffery is gone too and our OTs are below average at best. our best players on D have perennial injury concerns. and then they go and give Glennon 15 mill for the year (more expensive than Cutlers contract at that point) to buy themselves a season without having to reach for a QB, while being flexible enough to take a shot if an interesting prospect falls to the later rounds (or like Kizer falling to the 2nd) - so that they can further strengthen the D, maybe upgrade at OT, get a potential #1 WR, or so we would have thought. but no, the FO not only reaches for a QB with 1 year of college XP, but they trade up to ensure to get him, giving away further assets we needed to become a competitive roster. and with the remaining picks we get: 1 small school TE project who everyone calls "baby gronk" (can he jump out of a pool? , an undersized small school RB in Cohen, another G - and S Eddie Jackson, thank god.
how is that mix going to get us to 8 wins? and I think thats the number needed for Fox to keep his job after two consecutive losing seasons. Pace will definitly get another season, but then his career completly hinges on Trubisky. I'm all for continiuty and fear with this years draft and the Glennon-, Trubisky-moves Pace has proven to be too impatient... of course he could still get lucky and Trubs develops into a Top 10 QB, but I dont wanna know the odds of that happening... Last edited on 2017-07-10 21:36:32 by Buddy Ryan |
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MonsterT95
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posted: 2017-07-10 15:11:19 (ID: 100109517) Edits found: 2 Report Abuse |
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Buddy Ryan wrote:
sorry for coming back to the bears (everyone who is annoyed please just ignore and stop reading now)
where I dont agree with more optimistic fans and I guess the organization itself is that we are "really close" as Fox and Pace keep pointing out. now if you really think the bears D without injuries could be a Top 10 unit with an about average offense as it is, I understand the "we need a QB now to maximize our window" sentiment. but the bears werent the only unlucky team last year and regression to about average luck with injuries and close games also isnt guaranteed. and we just released Cutler - I really feel people are underestimating the ensuing drop off with Glennon. Jeffery is gone too and our OTs are below average at best. our best players on D have perennial injury concerns. and then they go and give Glennon 15 mill for the year (more expensive than Culters contract at that point) to buy themselves a season without having to reach for a QB, while being flexible enough to take a shot if an interesting prospect falls to the later rounds (or like Kizer falling to the 2nd) - so that they can further strengthen the D, maybe upgrade at OT, get a potential #1 WR, or so we would have thought. but no, the FO not only reaches for a QB with 1 year of college XP, but they trade up to ensure to get him, giving away further assets we needed to become a competitive roster. and with the remaining picks we get: 1 small school TE project who everyone calls "baby gronk" (can he jump out of a pool? , an undersized small school RB in Cohen, another G - and S Eddie Jackson, thank god.
how is that mix going to get us to 8 wins? and I think thats the number needed for Fox to keep his job after two consecutive losing seasons. Pace will definitly get another season, but then his career completly hinges on Trubisky. I'm all for continiuty and fear with this years draft and the Glennon-, Trubisky-moves Pace has proven to be too impatient... of course he could still get lucky and Trubs develops into a Top 10 QB, but I dont wanna know the odds of that happening... Remember when Lovie Smith was fired after a 10-6 season, and the team had guys like Urlacher, Briggs, Forte & Marshall ?
(not sure Marshall & Smith where on the team at the same time) Last edited on 2017-07-10 15:12:13 by MonsterT95 |
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Buddy Ryan
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posted: 2017-07-10 15:22:07 (ID: 100109519) Edits found: 3 Report Abuse |
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MonsterT95 wrote:
Remember when Lovie Smith was fired after a 10-6 season, and the team had guys like Urlacher, Briggs, Forte & Marshall ?
(not sure Marshall & Smith where on the team at the same time) yep, he was, and even Jeffery in his rookie season... and yeah, looking at the roster is painful compared to a few years ago 
a few weeks ago I was thinking about getting a bears jersey, and then I went through our sure fire homegrown starters: Kyle Long, Cody Whitehair.... damn all the other guys (exept Jordan Howard maybe) are just projections so far, I'll wait for next offseason Last edited on 2017-07-10 17:42:46 by Buddy Ryan |
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MonsterT95
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posted: 2017-07-10 16:50:51 (ID: 100109526) Report Abuse |
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Buddy Ryan wrote:
a few weeks ago I was thinking about getting a bears jersey, and then I went through our sure fire homegrown starters: Kyle Long, Cody Whitehair.... damn all the other guys (exept Jordan Howard maybe) are just projections so far, I'll wait for next offseason Another option : Rex Grossman (more SB apperances than Cutler !!) as did a teenage girl in my train a few weeks ago.
I couldn't stop thinking how ignorant she must be to do that  |
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Lamba
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posted: 2017-07-10 18:58:06 (ID: 100109531) Report Abuse |
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The name alone is worth getting that jersey.
King gross man.  |
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Buddy Ryan
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posted: 2017-07-11 21:52:56 (ID: 100109597) Report Abuse |
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maybe its an "ironic" hipster thing, Rexs nickname in chicago was "Sex Cannon" after all (I have no idea why)
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daylan
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posted: 2017-09-08 16:41:27 (ID: 100113831) Edits found: 1 Report Abuse |
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i think there going to be good
Last edited on 2017-09-08 16:41:49 by daylan |
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