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| Main / Discussions / Shotgun 4 Search Forum | |
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| posted: 2017-07-19 15:27:14 (ID: 100110011) Edits found: 1 Report Abuse | |
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You know - or maybe you don't - An excellent pair of CB's and MLB + FS does hinder SG4 success.
But as in RL spread formations are used because it does improve the possibility of positive yardage gains and makes it a little harder to score sacks. I do agree that 100% use of SG4 + pass only deserves to have a LARGE lopsided penalty that makes it a no win strategy. Last edited on 2017-07-19 15:28:04 by punch drunk |
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Gambler75
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posted: 2017-07-19 15:41:36 (ID: 100110014) Edits found: 2 Report Abuse |
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80% comp rate from 50+ straight SG4 passes.
My CBs and safeties are no slouches, MLB1+2 are definitely strengths ... doesn't matter a whole lot, the encouragement is there. Paris ran a "normal" offense until trailing by a couple scores, then went pure SG4 flanks the rest of the game - and his O was dramatically improved. The CBs were 46/49 tackle attempts, the 3 misses were covered up by the OLBs, so SF + MLB didn't seem to factor in at all tbh. And yes I won, that's not the point ... before someone jumps all over it. I would guess Paris would rather run a normal O all things being considered too, but once you're trailing a bit ... I don't blame him for spamming it, right now it FEELS like the risk/reward of using the other formations isn't worth losing the extra protection of the SG2/SG4. *edit* - Also, the worst amongst the defenders was ~45 Int, so we can rule out stupid as a factor lol  Last edited on 2017-07-19 15:53:15 by Gambler75 |
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Gambler75
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posted: 2017-07-19 15:49:28 (ID: 100110015) Edits found: 1 Report Abuse |
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I'm not campaigning for a nerf on SG2/SG4 btw ... I'd much rather see Pete make the sack rates of the OTHER formations make them a bit more tempting, and in line with reality ... and the NFL comparison is actually supports this.
"Notably, most of the league's very best offenses relied comparatively little on the shotgun this season. The five highest-gaining teams (Saints, Falcons, Redskins, Patriots, Cowboys) all ranked among the eight that used the shotgun least frequently. Four of the five teams that used the shotgun most ranked among the 10 poorest-performing offenses. One example: The San Francisco 49ers were in the shotgun 77.6 percent of the time (add in the pistol, with a smaller gap between center and QB, plus a running back hidden in the backfield, and the figure tops 90 percent) and were 31st of 32 clubs in average yards." The pressured percentage was actually lower playing under center ... why does that make any sense? Because teams were playing the run more honestly, delayed by play action, etc. from those. Last edited on 2017-07-19 15:50:05 by Gambler75 |
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MonsterT95
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posted: 2017-07-19 16:00:24 (ID: 100110016) Report Abuse |
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If I remember correctly, Pete wanted to hinder that kind of tactics, but when he talked about Coach Karma, he received à very, very strong oppposition.
I don't see why after having the RZA community rejected à powerful coach Karma, ambitious managers shouldn't feel free to do whatever it takes to win (legally) |
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hollyhh2000
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posted: 2017-07-19 16:11:20 (ID: 100110017) Report Abuse |
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Gambler75 wrote:
80% comp rate from 50+ straight SG4 passes. My CBs and safeties are no slouches, MLB1+2 are definitely strengths ... doesn't matter a whole lot, the encouragement is there. Paris ran a "normal" offense until trailing by a couple scores, then went pure SG4 flanks the rest of the game - and his O was dramatically improved. The CBs were 46/49 tackle attempts, the 3 misses were covered up by the OLBs, so SF + MLB didn't seem to factor in at all tbh. And yes I won, that's not the point ... before someone jumps all over it. I would guess Paris would rather run a normal O all things being considered too, but once you're trailing a bit ... I don't blame him for spamming it, right now it FEELS like the risk/reward of using the other formations isn't worth losing the extra protection of the SG2/SG4. I had the same experience against that same team. starting end of the 2nd quarter, I had the lead and faced 31 minutes of SG4 flanks Also really high completion percentage which bugs me the most. With the high percentage of 10-12 yard gains it is really hard to stop that offense. I made 2 picks during that span, that sealed the win, one very timely near my own Goalline that got returned 97 yards for the pick 6. I think, the lopsided penalty works very well as bad plays (sacks and interceptions) are increased. Completion percentage does not suffer noticeably. However, the SG takes away a lot of Sack Opportunities and a fast QB could drop down the sack rate even further. That teams QB got sacked twice all season. Go all out throwing for that long time in the NFL and your QB is killed This is not point finger at managers using that tactics. Good managers will take what the game is giving them and when it is successful, use it. However, I would rather see that bad things happen to your offense, when you are too predictable, as it is in real Football |
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Meitheisman
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posted: 2017-07-19 17:39:26 (ID: 100110022) Report Abuse |
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He threw 3 INT in that game against you Holly and you returned 2 for TDs meaning that when his offense was on the field he scored 10 pts and you scored 14... You would have won that game had your offense just used up the clock without ever scoring a single point
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Meitheisman
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posted: 2017-07-19 17:45:54 (ID: 100110023) Report Abuse |
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Just for the record, in 3 games against MM, WW and myself Paris lost all 3 and scored 43 points combined while MM, WW and myself scored 101pts (or an average of 14.3pts for and 33.7pts against) It's hardly a good example of SG formations being too successful imo.
Don't get me wrong, I use SG2 and SG4 about 40/50% of the time myself but I feel like a more balanced PB is still more beneficial than going all SG all game so if someone wants to abuse the SG formations and hand me a free win, because my CBs will get enough INT for me to win the game most of the time, I have no problem with it  |
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thomastem
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posted: 2017-07-19 17:51:21 (ID: 100110024) Report Abuse |
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Part of the problem is that the cookie cutter group think way of building a defense is not ideal for stopping flank passing. If your stars were CBs rather than MLB defenses would be stronger against flank passing. Flanks shouldn't be adjusted because people are too stubborn to defend it as strongly as middle.
If i scout a team that goes to S4 pass flanks when losing by X in 3rd and 4th quarter I can easily put in an optimum defense when winning by X in 3rd and 4th quarter and run up the score. I've done it consistently in this situation against comparable to slightly better talent. This is another example of people not understanding or not wanting to employ the best strategies and so ask Pete to eliminate the ability of opponents to attack their weakness. |
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Gambler75
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posted: 2017-07-19 18:00:19 (ID: 100110026) Edits found: 1 Report Abuse |
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thomastem wrote:
Part of the problem is that the cookie cutter group think way of building a defense is not ideal for stopping flank passing. If your stars were CBs rather than MLB defenses would be stronger against flank passing. Flanks shouldn't be adjusted because people are too stubborn to defend it as strongly as middle. If i scout a team that goes to S4 pass flanks when losing by X in 3rd and 4th quarter I can easily put in an optimum defense when winning by X in 3rd and 4th quarter and run up the score. I've done it consistently in this situation against comparable to slightly better talent. This is another example of people not understanding or not wanting to employ the best strategies and so ask Pete to eliminate the ability of opponents to attack their weakness. While that sounds good on paper, scout this player, and tell me he should give up a 100% catch rate against? 18/18 targets against him, running the same exact play over and over? If it was a pure garbage CB, then sure ... the MLB isn't THAT far ahead of his stats ... 
*edit* - And the opposing WR to him was comparable or significantly worse ... in everything except a slight advantage in agility. So ... no, it's not about MLB vs CB.  Last edited on 2017-07-19 18:06:06 by Gambler75 |
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thomastem
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posted: 2017-07-19 18:05:07 (ID: 100110027) Report Abuse |
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I just looked at the game that started this thread. It can't just be lost on me that the OP is complaining that he only won by 30-7 against a team that tried to come back from a big deficit. This has changed my mind!
How terrible that an opponent is allowed to do this. Like teams that have the audacity to change their team name Pete should block players IP from playing RZA for insulting the sensibilities of not playing "proper" to the RZA elitists ideals. Pete either make changes now or you are just another Napoleon from Germany! |
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