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| Main / Suggestions / Removal of Morale Loss in playoff games Search Forum | |
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Captain Jack
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posted: 2017-11-03 22:44:41 (ID: 100117659) Report Abuse |
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OrangeCrush wrote:
Rock777 wrote:
If the ELO predicted a very easy win, then you can lose even more point. But then maybe you should be punished for losing to a 40 rated team. So validate your numbers: I am down to 64% morale for loosing to a 69 rated team. Yes I should have won and made a mistake but I can maybe get back to 75% morale before tomorrows game @ Pete what you call roster management, most other would call tanking in one tournament. You even implemented a rule against tanking. understand you, I cannot sometimes Quite right. The answer to Rock's argument is that ELO is just plain wrong. It is a not a true measure of how the teams rate because its period of calculation is over too long a period. If we used ELO for evolution then we would probably still be ranking dinosaurs above humans. Anyway why should teams be punished? In the NFL Kansas lost two straight games so arguably their morale should be around 50% yet they bounced back to win their next game. In my own case I was disappointed to lose the SC but had thought there was a possibility. However, I now need to forget that match (as do my players) and get ready for our next game. We should be pumped up about it and without wishing to disrespect my opponent I would under normal circumstances, taking into account their performance and ours this season, be more confident about winning that game than the one against my SC opponent. Losing one game should not throw the team into chaos. So please can we have a better way of dealing with morale? I do not want to have to tank my team in order to 'manage my roster' or to 'adjust' my ELO. |
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| posted: 2017-11-03 23:01:24 (ID: 100117664) Report Abuse | |
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In the NFL there is major difference: there is only one competition. Therefore this argument does simply not work for RZA.
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| posted: 2017-11-03 23:03:47 (ID: 100117665) Report Abuse | |
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OrangeCrush wrote:
@ Pete what you call roster management, most other would call tanking in one tournament. You even implemented a rule against tanking. understand you, I cannot sometimes My understanding and feelings on tanking are completely different from your then, it seems to me. |
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| posted: 2017-11-03 23:26:57 (ID: 100117666) Report Abuse | |
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Captain Jack wrote:
Losing one game should not throw the team into chaos. So please can we have a better way of dealing with morale? I do not want to have to tank my team in order to 'manage my roster' or to 'adjust' my ELO. The question is simply: how to deal with it, without destroying inner game mechanics (that are in place for reasons). What do we have to far: 1.) Ignore Moral at all for certain game types like League POs, SC POs and CoC I am not sure this is the right way. I am still under the assumption a team should not be equally super strong in 3 different competitions at the same time. 2.) Reduce the hit of Morale for certain game types No matter how much I reduce the hit: as long as one is losing thursdays in SC POs, and has less Morale than 100% on Friday for CoC, and has less Morale than 100% in League POs, he/she will ask for reducing the hit. And there is (for me) no doubt we need such a hit, see 1.) 3.) Change how ELO works This is a really tough one, because it means adding just another ranking mechanism. For sure this would be the best option, but for sure this is the option with the most workload as well. And I am not talking about one or two days. I cannot achieve this in a reasonable amount of time at the moment. 4.) Use Strength ranking instead ELO No, since this opens the door for influencing the Morale hit directly - simply by changing the depth chart. Now, each one of you will enter a post telling why his already written solution is best, and why I am wrong...but...there is no easy fix, and for sure there is no fix within the current season. Therefore, please take care not to raise the level of emotions while we discuss in "Suggestions". We have other forum areas for "Holy shit, I am really upset now" posts. Dont get me wrong... |
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Rock777
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posted: 2017-11-03 23:29:19 (ID: 100117667) Edits found: 1 Report Abuse |
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@Captain Jack - Your team is going to be around 98 Morale by the time you are playing your playoff game (assuming you have facilities turned on). Really don't see 98 morale having that much of a negative impact on the outcome of your game...
I do agree that ELO could be a bit more accurate. It doesn't seem to u p d a t e fast enough compared to how quickly teams change in strength. @OrangeCrush - That is a tough break. You should be higher than 75% by tomorrow if you have both facilities active. I'm not certain 80 vs 100 morale has as devastating an impact on your team's performance as everyone seems to assume. But really I would say its part of the game. You really should have won that game. The team that beat you may be relegating to Admirals 2.x next season (if they lose the relegation game). So it seems reasonable that there should be some negative impact to your team's morale. Last edited on 2017-11-03 23:29:55 by Rock777 |
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Rock777
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posted: 2017-11-04 01:20:42 (ID: 100117672) Report Abuse |
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I think the ELO could definitely be improved, but I can see how that would also require a good amount of work. Although I did make some suggestions in earlier threads about tweaking the K-factor (just one or a few variables depending on how you implemented it) to increase the reactivity of ELO, which I would think would not be a huge change. I can see concerns about gaming the system, but I think a small change would maintain integrity while increasing reactivity. Remember skill level in chess is no where near as reactive as team skill level here.
Another lower effort "fix" might be to slightly widen the range definitions for outcome expectations. For instance, should the Aliens really have been expected to win our game, as opposed to expecting a somewhat even outcome? A wider range may have estimated a close game. Not really a fix, but might provide less heartache for closely matched games where the "underdog" isn't really an underdog. |
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OrangeCrush
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posted: 2017-11-04 08:51:08 (ID: 100117687) Report Abuse |
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76% to 78% after both facilities worked overnight. Nice start for my game of the year
Up to now I was not aware that even players without a single snap, but on the depth chart, lose full amount of morale like my backup QB Makes this manage your roster suggestion sound even like a bad sarchastic joke  |
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| posted: 2017-11-04 10:48:08 (ID: 100117691) Report Abuse | |
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if you have a guy you want to save from te hit, you need to remove him from the DC.
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JonnyP
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posted: 2017-11-04 11:23:58 (ID: 100117695) Edits found: 1 Report Abuse |
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It a very artificial way of trying to ensure trophies are spread around, I get it now. Find ways of holding the best back. Power to the masses and all that?
The biggest problem however is the fact that it is tied to a bullshit ranking system that punishes the current squad for the exploits of players from 10+ seasons beforehand. The better someone did in seasons 10-15 for example, the harder the game becomes for them in season 30. The longer someone plays the game, the more the game punishes them for any little mistake. How is that remotely logical? How is can that even be remotely considered to be good design? I'm not against the idea of big morale losses when top teams lose against weaker opponents, that is fine, that is to be expected. That is good. As long as the mechanism to decide what constitutes a 'top' team is accurate. The current ELO system is woefully inadequate. Unfit for purpose. Removing morale from the playoff calculation is a short term patch for this inadequacy - in the long run the ELO calculation needs to be fixed or replaced. Last edited on 2017-11-04 11:27:28 by JonnyP |
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| posted: 2017-11-04 11:57:15 (ID: 100117701) Report Abuse | |
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So the conclusion would be, as I was trying to point out earlier, the only safe way is to enable a different ranking to determine the current strength of a certain team. Not talking about workload now
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