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jack6
Leverkusen Leopards

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posted: 2015-01-10 17:08:42 (ID: 100048611) Report Abuse
Well .. That linked article is basically bullshit.
There is no prove, just speculations over mossard actions because of france acceptance of palastina.

Who wrote that stuff? Some right winger?
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PeteR
posted: 2015-01-10 17:42:11 (ID: 100048613) Report Abuse
DonWilliam wrote:
Drogon wrote:
The terrorist attacks and crimes that happened in France last days have nothing to do with free speech or liberty of expression (or free press).


Well, i disagree.

Killing Journalists and trying to wipe out a whole satiric magazine is a brutal attack against the free press and against freedom of speech in my opinion.


Totally agree, it was a direct attack on free speech by terrorists intent on murdering innocent French civilians.
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Admin

Contact
posted: 2015-01-10 19:19:26 (ID: 100048622)
to all: Please be careful. This type of discussion could go into personal insults very fast, and this would be the thin line you should not cross here.

Thanks a lot!
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JonnyP
posted: 2015-01-10 21:12:26 (ID: 100048628) Report Abuse
jack6 wrote:
Well .. That linked article is basically bullshit.
There is no prove, just speculations over mossard actions because of france acceptance of palastina.

Who wrote that stuff? Some right winger?


Conspiracy theorists can to belong both the extreme left and the extreme right.

The people who occupy more moderate positions tend to have a little more common sense than to believe that nonsense
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Drogon
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posted: 2015-01-10 22:32:39 (ID: 100048637) Report Abuse
jack6 wrote:
Well .. That linked article (...)
There is no prove, just speculations (...)


Of course there's no proof, of course it's just speculation (when it was first published).

But don't miss the purpose of the link : we're talking about free speech (and free press), right ?

Then, can you just see how (and why) free speech in free press becomes.... an "erroneous article" that is removed from the site of the IBT ?


And don't forget : you must fight for free speech (and free press) ONLY when it does not fit your own standards of free speech (and free press), because when it does fit you don't need to.
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Drogon
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posted: 2015-01-10 23:11:30 (ID: 100048640) Report Abuse
JonnyP wrote:

Conspiracy theorists can to belong both the extreme left and the extreme right.

The people who occupy more moderate positions tend to have a little more common sense than to believe that nonsense


Conspiracy theories belong to free speech.
Conspiracy theories are the basis of any investigation.
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Aquashift
posted: 2015-01-11 08:44:51 (ID: 100048652) Report Abuse
Im praying for all those hurt in this tragedy. =(
I looked at some of the artwork that this publication showed of christian, jewish, and islamic religious beliefs, and I gotta say I cringed at a couple of them that showed pornographic images of Jesus and his Father, but I just don't understand the violent reaction towards it. Sure, I hated the cartoons that dealt with my religion, but I didn't have the slightest urge to hurt anyone over it.
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jack6
Leverkusen Leopards

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posted: 2015-01-11 09:53:36 (ID: 100048653) Report Abuse
Drogon wrote:
jack6 wrote:
Well .. That linked article (...)
There is no prove, just speculations (...)


Of course there's no proof, of course it's just speculation (when it was first published).

But don't miss the purpose of the link : we're talking about free speech (and free press), right ?

Then, can you just see how (and why) free speech in free press becomes.... an "erroneous article" that is removed from the site of the IBT ?


And don't forget : you must fight for free speech (and free press) ONLY when it does not fit your own standards of free speech (and free press), because when it does fit you don't need to.

Of cause the web site could have let that stand, their choise.

But given the spectulations in that article with no proof at all, I can understand why they took it of the web site.

Because if you want to be taken seriously as journalist, you should not print such unproofen stuff. If you post such stuff, it has to be made clear, that this is not the web site position, but the authors.

I 'm sure that process of taking it off the site was a business decision, not a forced order by who ever you might think forced them to do so.

By the way, the author himself did apologize on twitter.

Last edited on 2015-01-11 10:05:03 by jack6

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Meitheisman
posted: 2015-01-11 19:52:10 (ID: 100048689) Report Abuse
One of the problem with France and freedom of expression is that it's pretty inconsistent.

The European Court of Human Rights condemned France 28 times for convicted people who were just using their freedom of expression. To compare with the other 4 biggest European countries the UK lost 11 cases, Germany and Italy 5 each and Spain 4. So France alone lost more cases than the other 4 countries combined.

What I mean by that is that it's a bit hypocritical for most people to be all up in arms about this but to not say anything when French courts and French politicians limit freedom of expression.
There's actually currently a case against a rapper who said in a song that he wants to piss on "Napoleon and De Gaulles" and "treat France like the slut she is"... This case was brought up by a French MP and many more support him. Again hypocritical to fight for Charlie Hebdo's right to offend Muslims but to not allow a rapper to offend you.


Then when comparing religious offenses you have to compare what's comparable, drawing the prophet is seen as the most offensive thing you can do by most Muslims, this would be like making a joke about the holocaust when it comes to Judaism... I've seen many cartoons by Charlie Hebdo, none made fun of the holocaust so they weren't really equally offensive to all, unfortunately.

That being said it doesn't mean that the cartoonists should have been killed but it's a bit hypocritical to claim that they offended everyone equally.


So yeah, in conclusion freedom of expression should be fought for every day, not just when it suits you or when someone gets killed.
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pete
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posted: 2015-01-11 19:58:44 (ID: 100048691) Report Abuse
Meitheisman wrote:
So yeah, in conclusion freedom of expression should be fought for every day, not just when it suits you or when someone gets killed.
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