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| Main / Discussions / OL blocking Search Forum | |
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Buffalo
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posted: 2016-09-04 07:24:02 (ID: 100084989) Report Abuse |
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I would like to discuss the success of OL blocking. In my opinion speed and agility of the QB is more important to avoid sacks, than a strong OL. With this argument Payton Manning and -G.O.A.T- would never have success in the NFL. There are my OL and stats from this season (only starters).
Montell Findley (left tackle) 5* EXP 50 Strength 45 Teamwork 30 INT 44 Blocking 44 Footwork 44 Agility 44 Positioning 35 Vision Passbocker trait 1106 plays, 376 good blocks, 730 missed blocks, 238 pancakes, 34% success Scotty Walker (right guard) 4* EXP 46.6 Strength 39.5 Teamwork 46.5 INT 46.4 Blocking 40.2 Footwork 46.1 Agility 29.2 Positioning 23.6 Vision 729 plays, 104 good blocks,187 missed blocks, 56 pancakes, 35.7% success Luke Bell (center) 5* EXP 47.6 Strength 46.6 Teamwork 41.2 INT 44.5 Blocking 44 Footwork 42.4 Agility 44 Positioning 25.4 Vision 657 plays, 213 good blocks,349 missed blocks, 116 pancakes, 37.9% success Wyclef Hutchinson (right guard) 5* EXP 47.1 Strength 44 Teamwork 31.6 INT 42.5 Blocking 42.4 Footwork 35 Agility 42.5 Positioning 42.5 Vision 925 plays, 220 good blocks,220 missed blocks, 99 pancakes, 35.7% success Frigyes Kocsis (right tackle) 5* EXP 46.5 Strength 50 Teamwork 39.3 INT 49.4 Blocking 49.2 Footwork 41.4 Agility 48 Positioning 46 Vision 821 plays, 322 good blocks,488 missed blocks, 170 pancakes, 39.8% success My QBs together were sacked 65 times this season. What do I miss. Why is the blocking of a quite good OL so horrible. I know not every effect of the OL is recorded in stats. But the main stats don't lie. The discussion should be: What is your experience? How could Pete probably improve the OL calculation. |
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CoachSimpson
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posted: 2016-09-04 07:49:31 (ID: 100084991) Report Abuse |
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I'm no wizard in NFL tactics, however I think the low percentage of your OL's does look odd.
I took a look at your last game against Leeds Celtics and in the 1. Quarter your QB was sacked 3 times - all of them a pass play from I-formation. 2 times vs 3-4-4 and once against Dime - all on blitz from OLB and once from MLB. In these situations it appears the TE is moving into catch (from the pass play option) leaving both right and left side open for the OLB's. Admittingly I have limited knowledge on the game mechanics - I just spotted a pattern, is all......which still leaves the question open about blocking succes with high powered OL's. Perhaps different playcalls and formations!?!?! |
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thomastem
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posted: 2016-09-04 09:17:02 (ID: 100084994) Report Abuse |
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Interior lineman don't pass block but your FB does. So OCs and OGs other than maybe their TW rating don't matter for sacks.
You only list 2 tackles. If you aren't subbing/rotating a 3rd and a fourth they are wearing down. If you are subbing then why not list they as them would be also giving up sacks. The playing backups may be weak or if those 2 play all game then they are wearing down. You can tally your sacks by quarter and see if there is a pattern as the game progresses. How good is your FB? FBs pick up blitzes and missed blocks by the tackles. QB skill may also have an affect. I've noticed that a slower less agile QB was sacked much less frequently than than the faster QB with lower Vision and intelligence. Perhaps a QB with higher skill throws the ball quicker. If QB skills have an affect does the engine take into account receiver skills for how fast they get open? I don't know the answer but I am open to the possibility. The last thing I can think of to consider is your PB. If you are only passing in obvious passing situations, or your rushing production doesn't slow down opposing coaches in the frequency that they blitz you then you will be sacked more often than offenses with a running game that concern the defense. Simply put there is a higher frequency of sacks when the defense blitzes. Is your running game strong enough to make the opposition pay for blitzing. This is a deep game, I hope I've helped give you some things to consider that help you bring down your future sacked frequency. Last edited on 2016-09-04 09:20:24 by thomastem |
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Doc
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posted: 2016-09-04 10:54:24 (ID: 100084998) Report Abuse |
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thomastem wrote:
Interior lineman don't pass block but your FB does. So OCs and OGs other than maybe their TW rating don't matter for sacks. Incorrect. 7:36 3 and goal to go on opp 3, Cameron O'Carroll (OC) snaps the ball to Reece Quinn (QB), Reece Quinn (QB) selected Krom-Luang Ong (WR/L) as target, Blocking: Babarimisa Soyinka (OG/R) pancaked Kabaila Ba (DT/L), Dillon Maher (OG/L) blocked Darel Blythe (DT/R), Joseph Fitzpatrick (OT/R) blocked Jitu Ironsi (DE/L), Alan O'Connor (OT/L) blocked Herbert Matas (DE/R), DLine has 0 members in shape after blocking Young-Ja Pyo (OLB/L) goes for the blitz, Sam Molony (FB/R) blocks, the possible chance for an interception was destroyed by the passers skills, this outer left pass is incomplete, overthrown, the QB was not able to execute the action, no progress (Shotgun 4 WR vs. 4-4-3) more Interior linemen do not show up as blocking when they do not have a direct DL opponent against them i.e. verses 3-3-4. Notice here we are against a 4-4-3 defense, no NT so the OC is not included in the blocking. Below we are against a 3-3-4, you will notice the OG's are not involved in the blocking as there are no DT's but the NT is present, therefore the OC has a direct opponent and is included in the blocking roll. 8:06 2 and goal to go on opp 8, Cameron O'Carroll (OC) snaps the ball to Reece Quinn (QB), Reece Quinn (QB) selected Benjamin Hochulli (WR/R) as target, Blocking: Cameron O'Carroll (OC) missed to block Kabaila Ba (NT), Joseph Fitzpatrick (OT/R) missed to block Jitu Ironsi (DE/L), Alan O'Connor (OT/L) missed to block Herbert Matas (DE/R), DLine has 3 members in shape after blocking Blake Diehl (MLB) goes for the blitz, Sam Molony (FB/R) blocks, nearly intercepted, this outer screen right pass goes to the receiver, who catches the ball, Benjamin Hochulli (WR/R) tackled by Steve Smith (CB/L), forward progress: 5 yards (Shotgun 2 WR vs. 3-4-4) more Hope this helps you understand Thom, the game is deeper than you thought  |
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Doc
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posted: 2016-09-04 11:05:44 (ID: 100084999) Report Abuse |
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And for a 5 man DL all 5 OL participate in pass blocking :-
14:54 1 and 10 to go on own 16, Cameron O'Carroll (OC) snaps the ball to Reece Quinn (QB), Reece Quinn (QB) selected Benjamin Hochulli (WR/L) as target, Blocking: Cameron O'Carroll (OC) missed to block Dan Bâra (NT), Dillon Maher (OG/R) missed to block Darel Blythe (DT/L), Babarimisa Soyinka (OG/L) missed to block Kabaila Ba (DT/R), Alan O'Connor (OT/R) missed to block Herbert Matas (DE/L), Joseph Fitzpatrick (OT/L) missed to block Jitu Ironsi (DE/R), DLine has 5 members in shape after blocking Yahya Bancilhon (OLB/L) goes for the blitz, Sam Molony (FB/R) blocks, nearly intercepted, this outer left pass is incomplete, overthrown, the QB was not able to execute the action, no progress (Shotgun 4 WR vs. 5-3-3) more Interior linemen lives matter. Season 21 player trophies. OL 1 Joseph Fitzpatrick Carrickfergus Knights RZA Elite League 0.1 OL 2 Antonio Sotomaior Landru Athletics RZA Elite League 0.1 OL 3 Babarimisa Soyinka Carrickfergus Knights RZA Elite League 0.1 <- - - - -interior lineman |
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Doc
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posted: 2016-09-04 11:29:44 (ID: 100085001) Report Abuse |
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Could you list the speed of your OL Buffalo?
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thomastem
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posted: 2016-09-04 11:39:00 (ID: 100085002) Report Abuse |
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This looks so different than what the plays in my games say on pass plays. Can I please have a link to the game you took these plays from?
How many times have you been sacked by DTs or NTs? |
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Doc
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posted: 2016-09-04 11:58:37 (ID: 100085004) Report Abuse |
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thomastem wrote:
This looks so different than what the plays in my games say on pass plays. Can I please have a link to the game you took these plays from? How many times have you been sacked by DTs or NTs? Run a scrimmage (no point in linking it as you cannot see other people's scrims)(try this one Divers Scrim), the live feed for matchday's do not include all lines of data. And no, I haven't been sacked by either, but just because DT's and NT are not programmed into the play system to get sacks, does not mean I do not think that they effect the sacking roll chance. Last edited on 2016-09-04 15:06:20 by Doc |
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thomastem
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posted: 2016-09-04 12:18:08 (ID: 100085006) Report Abuse |
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Doc wrote:
thomastem wrote:
This looks so different than what the plays in my games say on pass plays. Can I please have a link to the game you took these plays from? How many times have you been sacked by DTs or NTs? Run a scrimmage (no point in linking it as you cannot see other people's scrims)(try this one Divers Scrim), the live feed for matchday's do not include all lines of data. And no, I haven't been sacked by either, but just because DT's and NT are not programmed into the play system to get sacks, does mean I do not think that they effect the sacking roll chance. It's possible. While I can't prove it because sample size may be to small I know for a fact that my 5-3 blitz has not been getting a higher sack rate than my 3 down lineman lines. If the DTs and NTs contribute to the sack roll it would stand to reason that 5-3 blitz would out perform 3-4 blitz. While not proof it is data to start to form an opinion. Everyone can go back and determine on average how many plays it took in a formation with blitz to achieve a sack and form their own opinion. Is this how you formed your opinion or are there data points I haven't considered? |
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Gambler75
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posted: 2016-09-04 13:30:45 (ID: 100085007) Report Abuse |
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I think part of it might be how that statistic is being generated, as Pete mentioned before "partial" blocks count as a miss in the % shown there.
When comparing it to something like - Pro Football Focus 3 year analysis of OT pass blocking, where even the worst starting OT in pass blocking is 92% successful, it is a bit jarring ... but I do think it's comparing apples to oranges, as we have no ability to separate run blocks from pass blocks, partial blocks from full blocks, etc.  |
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