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| Main / The Lounge - Smokers welcome / Will coronavirus have an impact on Season 38? Search Forum | |
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| posted: 2020-05-04 05:30:50 (ID: 100148818) Report Abuse | |
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Drogon wrote:
I knew one person. Not old, no comorbidity. He's dead. Being worried about the Econmy or business or money is just a big a nonsense. That's a crime ! I'm not advocating one way or another...just reporting what's going on here. Steve SD Blitz |
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Kanar
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posted: 2020-05-04 06:15:05 (ID: 100148821) Report Abuse |
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It seems that most of the countries agreed to accept the fatalities caused by the end of the lockdown. Time will say if this decision, way over my pay grade, was the right one or not.
Yet having my in-laws in Georgia, I can’t hide how disgusted I am about how low income workers are forced to go back to work. Some lives seems to worth way less even if usually « every life matters » in the state... I sincerely hope that those who claim the peak is passed, that this virus is a seasonal one and that the masks will be enough to prevent a new peak are right. Stay safe guys. |
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| posted: 2020-05-04 06:54:54 (ID: 100148823) Edits found: 1 Report Abuse | |
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Solana_Steve wrote:
Drogon wrote:
I knew one person. Not old, no comorbidity. He's dead. Being worried about the Econmy or business or money is just a big a nonsense. That's a crime ! I'm not advocating one way or another...just reporting what's going on here. Steve SD Blitz You can and it would be alright but I may not agree with you. I'm definitely not a fan of a single thought. There's only one matter : the virus and the disease. Which is a matter of health, life or death and the sequelae. Under the current circumstances, being worried about the Economy or business or money is just a big nonsense AND a total disrespect AND pure selfishness. Last edited on 2020-05-04 06:56:37 by Drogon |
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| posted: 2020-05-07 20:29:35 (ID: 100148925) Report Abuse | |
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So in the United States, a few of the states are starting to lift some of their shelter in place/stay at home orders....so I guess we'll see if that has a significant affect on the infection rate.
The media over here as been debating the approach Sweden has taken compared to the rest of Europe. I guess Sweden has shut down a lot less (elementary schools are still open, so are restaurants) - - they have a slightly higher infection rate but not really an explosion in terms of outbreaks & deaths. Their ambassador was on American TV last night and said they think they are building up herd immunity. Steve SD Blitz |
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PJRAVENS
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posted: 2020-05-07 20:54:39 (ID: 100148927) Report Abuse |
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Sweden: People 10M people/km² 22.51 affected 24263 died 3040
Italy Milan Region only: people 10M people/km² 421,6 affected 80000 died 14745 (85% over 70yo) despite restrictions. |
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Kanar
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posted: 2020-05-08 06:21:15 (ID: 100148930) Report Abuse |
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There are so many factors that prevent any comparison between countries. As PJ mentioned, the people density is one.
But we do not know how this virus works. We do not know the impact of the the climate or people genetics for example. Even comparing similar countries, like Sweden with Norway, may not make so much sense. Yet this seems to be the least unreliable comparison. The only things we are sure is that lockdown saves lifes. Stopping it or not doing it kills people. Yes it is dramatic for the economy and any gouvernement taking any decision will find ways to justify it and prove it was the good one. Because any government first goal is not to act for people but to act for reelection and own interests. |
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| posted: 2020-05-08 07:02:28 (ID: 100148931) Report Abuse | |
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Kanar wrote:
The only things we are sure is that lockdown saves lifes. Stopping it or not doing it kills people. It's also a fact that the lockdown does on the other hand kill people. It's a different group of people, still they die, - because they did not go to the doctor while having serious health issues like heart attacks - because doctor offices are closed - because needed operations are postponed or canceled - because medication is not available - because of suicide thanks to isolation or desperation This issue with the virus and the people is not black and white and it is not an easy task, it's basically an ethical question which can't be answered with a single right anwers, since you can not weight the death of a group people against the death of another group of people. Each goverment does right now find their own way and some might do it right in my opinion or your opinion, some do fail big time. You can look an any county and you find issues with the decisions. |
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Kanar
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posted: 2020-05-08 09:28:06 (ID: 100148933) Report Abuse |
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jack6 wrote:
Kanar wrote:
The only things we are sure is that lockdown saves lifes. Stopping it or not doing it kills people. It's also a fact that the lockdown does on the other hand kill people. It's a different group of people, still they die, - because they did not go to the doctor while having serious health issues like heart attacks - because doctor offices are closed - because needed operations are postponed or canceled - because medication is not available - because of suicide thanks to isolation or desperation This issue with the virus and the people is not black and white and it is not an easy task, it's basically an ethical question which can't be answered with a single right anwers, since you can not weight the death of a group people against the death of another group of people. Each goverment does right now find their own way and some might do it right in my opinion or your opinion, some do fail big time. You can look an any county and you find issues with the decisions. I agree that it is not white or black. Yet I disagree with some of the reasons you give about why the lockdown kills too, at least in France. First, doctor offices are not closed. You must call first to take an appointment and for minor issues you may have a diagnostic without going there. Therefore I assume people not going to the doctor because of other health issues do not go there because they are afraid to get the virus by going out, especially in place where sick people go. Then only the non urgent surgeries have been postponed. And they have been postponed to free medical staff to focus on the covid positive patients. The more people go out, the more they get chances to be positive, the more the medical staff is overloaded, the more none essential surgeries are canceled. That's not a lockdown issue. About the medication penury, it seems we are not there yet in France. There is a supply tension and a risk of penury but not a confirmed one. The main reason is that the need increased and not the offer. The local supply is not impacted by the lockdown as those factories did not close. Yet the impact of international supply from Asia is real. Those countries (especially India) are retaining the drugs for their people (which we can understand) and European countries struggles to get their orders. It also seems that in China and India, the lockdown concerned this industry too increasing the tension. Now I fully agree that the lockdown and its economical impacts causes isolation and depression and could lead to suicides. And this is dramatic. I would also add domestic violence. Once again, I mostly look at what's happening in my country. I would add that a study showed that from mid-march to mid-april, the lockdown saved 60 000 lives in France (pdf). I guess there will be some studies in several months/years on the lockdown casulties as well. |
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| posted: 2020-05-08 09:28:21 (ID: 100148934) Report Abuse | |
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I hope I can survive this shit, because I cannot wait to see who was wrong with the measures, and who did right. Not to blame the wrong ones, but to learn from their mistakes.
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| posted: 2020-05-08 10:26:18 (ID: 100148936) Report Abuse | |
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Kanar wrote:
I agree that it is not white or black. Yet I disagree with some of the reasons you give about why the lockdown kills too, at least in France. First, doctor offices are not closed. You must call first to take an appointment and for minor issues you may have a diagnostic without going there. Therefore I assume people not going to the doctor because of other health issues do not go there because they are afraid to get the virus by going out, especially in place where sick people go. Then only the non urgent surgeries have been postponed. And they have been postponed to free medical staff to focus on the covid positive patients. The more people go out, the more they get chances to be positive, the more the medical staff is overloaded, the more none essential surgeries are canceled. That's not a lockdown issue. About the medication penury, it seems we are not there yet in France. There is a supply tension and a risk of penury but not a confirmed one. The main reason is that the need increased and not the offer. The local supply is not impacted by the lockdown as those factories did not close. Yet the impact of international supply from Asia is real. Those countries (especially India) are retaining the drugs for their people (which we can understand) and European countries struggles to get their orders. It also seems that in China and India, the lockdown concerned this industry too increasing the tension. Now I fully agree that the lockdown and its economical impacts causes isolation and depression and could lead to suicides. And this is dramatic. I would also add domestic violence. Once again, I mostly look at what's happening in my country. I would add that a study showed that from mid-march to mid-april, the lockdown saved 60 000 lives in France (pdf). I guess there will be some studies in several months/years on the lockdown casulties as well. Well, in Germany many operations were postponed to free intensive care capacities, and yes, instant need operations were done, but who can judge where an tumor operation can be savely postponed for weeks or months and the patient has the same survival chances as if the operation would have been done as planned. Same for some other medical treatments. And doctor offices were closed in some cases here, even hospitals were closed in some cases. Yes they were opened again, once the requirements on health and sanitation were met, still if that is the only office near your house, it gets problematic. For cities usuall no problem, in not so dense eras is is. I'm not in bed with the open-everything-up-people, but a total lockdown for weeks and month can't also be the answer. Since this is a global issue, we can not sit out this thing and depend on others, since all are effected. We have some wierd discussions here and I'm with Peter, I'm more than curious to see, what will be the results of all this and the learnings, once the dust settles and some deeper analysis can be done. |
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