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| Main / Suggestions / Impressions and Suggestions Search Forum | |
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mikemike778
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posted: 2012-03-25 12:35:13 (ID: 33661) Report Abuse |
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Some thoughts ...
1. Player sizes - looking at the draft choices and so on, seems to me the speed and strength of players are too similar. For example most players seem to cap off between mid 30s and mid 40s I'd have thought there would be a bigger range. Your genuine heavy weights on the line should have maybe 20 max speed (some lower than that) and your speedsters likewise about 20 max strength. Doesn't seem to be much difference between the physique of a RB and say an OL relatively speaking. 2. Don't know if its too late in the day to have new skills but game probably needs jumping as well as a 4th physical skill to create another dimension as with no height there's nothing to simulate the aerial side - ie creating mismatches with a tall WR versus a short WR. 3. If physicals are wage-free and used to allocate positions - why not make agility free as well ? 4. Kinda of in line with number 1 - things like intelligence seem to be a bit too bunched in draftees as well. Most of them seem to be 40+. Would be better to see the whole range 0-50 used more. 5. Training Speed Think I read its not affected by age - doesn't this mean when the game matures - the best players will all be say close to 30 and the youngsters not much cop. Maybe might be better to accelerate training of younger players and deccelerate old players so players pretty much hit close to their skill maturity at about say 25. 6. TeamWork Seeing as it governs training speed - can see all players having high TW which kinda neutralises its attribute value. Maybe have another attribute 'Training Potential' that impacts training potential and leave Teamwork as a normal attribute. 7. Training There's a lot of player and can see PC being a nightmare. You can save quick settings but can you save the main setting (ie everyone's training setting) . If you have a quick setting of say 90 % PC and switch to that to recover PC but then want to go back to your original - you'll have to u p d a t e each player one by one wont you which doesn't sound much fun. 8. Draft Board Seems a bit fiddly to move players up and down. Maybe have a numerical drop down as well (1-96) - to auto put him in a slot. Anyway, just a few thoughts after my first week or so in the game. |
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sh8888
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posted: 2012-03-25 13:45:09 (ID: 33664) Report Abuse |
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mikemike778 wrote:
Some thoughts ... 1. Player sizes - looking at the draft choices and so on, seems to me the speed and strength of players are too similar. For example most players seem to cap off between mid 30s and mid 40s I'd have thought there would be a bigger range. Your genuine heavy weights on the line should have maybe 20 max speed (some lower than that) and your speedsters likewise about 20 max strength. Doesn't seem to be much difference between the physique of a RB and say an OL relatively speaking. 2. Don't know if its too late in the day to have new skills but game probably needs jumping as well as a 4th physical skill to create another dimension as with no height there's nothing to simulate the aerial side - ie creating mismatches with a tall WR versus a short WR. 3. If physicals are wage-free and used to allocate positions - why not make agility free as well ? 4. Kinda of in line with number 1 - things like intelligence seem to be a bit too bunched in draftees as well. Most of them seem to be 40+. Would be better to see the whole range 0-50 used more. 5. Training Speed Think I read its not affected by age - doesn't this mean when the game matures - the best players will all be say close to 30 and the youngsters not much cop. Maybe might be better to accelerate training of younger players and deccelerate old players so players pretty much hit close to their skill maturity at about say 25. 6. TeamWork Seeing as it governs training speed - can see all players having high TW which kinda neutralises its attribute value. Maybe have another attribute 'Training Potential' that impacts training potential and leave Teamwork as a normal attribute. 7. Training There's a lot of player and can see PC being a nightmare. You can save quick settings but can you save the main setting (ie everyone's training setting) . If you have a quick setting of say 90 % PC and switch to that to recover PC but then want to go back to your original - you'll have to u p d a t e each player one by one wont you which doesn't sound much fun. 8. Draft Board Seems a bit fiddly to move players up and down. Maybe have a numerical drop down as well (1-96) - to auto put him in a slot. Anyway, just a few thoughts after my first week or so in the game. Nice post , quite thought provoking .... welcome to the game ! Here's my thoughts on your thoughts  :-
(1) I think that in real life, some of the physiques are starting to change. I'm thinking of big bruising RB's who are not that far off some of the smaller OL's, and I'm thinking of WR's (like Calvin Johnson) who are big strong guys in addition to being fast. I like the current speed/strength caps, i.e. 30 to 50 ....... if you've ever played -TOG-(where skills are 1-20), I've had players cap at 9 (same as 22.5 in RZA) .... that's a disaster as the player suddenly has no value and no real suitable position to play him. (2) jumping ? ... hmmm, would've thought that "agility" covered jumping quite well. (4) intelligent draftees .... I'm thinking "chicken and egg" here ... i.e. are the draftees smart because they need to be, or are they smart because nobody wants a dumb draftee ? (5) you're more-or-less referring to "age deterioration" here, it happens in -TOG-(training slows at 28, more-or-less stops at 30, skills decline at 31 and really plummet at 33), sounds great ??? No .... two problems (a) it isn't widely known in -TOG- so you have newbees who've inherited an old team which is deteriorating in front of their eyes and they can't see it ! (b) if Pete introduces this (and I know he's well aware of the situation), then I really hope that he gives us a LONG period of introduction, because your Star 27-year old WR just suddenly became worthless overnight. (7) Really strongly disagree with you re training, I LOVE the training in RZA, it is SO flexible, you can fine tune it ..... in -TOG- you have to have ALL your roster on the same training intensity (i.e. if one guy is overtrained and needs a rest, but the others don't ... tough luck). Over here at RZA you need to put in the work re monitoring training, but it is worth it. I don't think anything needs to change re training and it's as hard work for me as anyone as I currently have an almost full roster plus a full YA (i.e. 70 + 22 ). (8) Agree with the draft board, it's often easy to think "I'd pick this guy at 10th to 20th", would be nice to have the draft board more easy to maneouvre/manipulate, a button to put the guy at 13th or whatever would be great. |
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panoramix
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posted: 2012-03-25 13:55:02 (ID: 33665) Report Abuse |
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+1 from me.
We can speak also about blitzes and sacks, efficacy of a repeated play (i.e. I-form run to the right on 30-40 snaps), transfermarket, moty... I've read (and written) many threads about these topics, bot there were no upgrades to the engine and changes to the game. So we can see that in the large parts of the matches they are more running fumbles and interceptions than sacks, more completed passes vs. a 3-4-4 than vs. a 5-3-3 and more long runs vs. a 5-3-3 than vs. a 3-4-4. This nice game is following the direction of the maximum number of players at the expense of realism. IMHO, it's quite frustrating. |
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looser
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posted: 2012-03-25 14:02:42 (ID: 33668) Report Abuse |
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sh8888 wrote:
Nice post , quite thought provoking .... welcome to the game ! Here's my thoughts on your thoughts :-
(1) I think that in real life, some of the physiques are starting to change. I'm thinking of big bruising RB's who are not that far off some of the smaller OL's, and I'm thinking of WR's (like Calvin Johnson) who are big strong guys in addition to being fast. I like the current speed/strength caps, i.e. 30 to 50 ....... if you've ever played -TOG-(where skills are 1-20), I've had players cap at 9 (same as 22.5 in RZA) .... that's a disaster as the player suddenly has no value and no real suitable position to play him. You know you only get Yellow at 30 so the cap is from 35-50  |
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Admin
Contact |
posted: 2012-03-25 14:04:10 (ID: 33669) |
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panoramix wrote:
This nice game is following the direction of the maximum number of players at the expense of realism. I can deal with unsatisfied expectations on rush/pass, and many other things, but I can't deal with wrong facts. We do not act to get the maximum number of players. If this would be the case we wouldn't have playbooks, drafts and so on - we would have a much more simplified game... Just think about it |
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mikemike778
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posted: 2012-03-25 14:58:45 (ID: 33672) Report Abuse |
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sh8888 wrote:
Nice post , quite thought provoking .... welcome to the game ! Here's my thoughts on your thoughts :-
(1) I think that in real life, some of the physiques are starting to change. I'm thinking of big bruising RB's who are not that far off some of the smaller OL's, and I'm thinking of WR's (like Calvin Johnson) who are big strong guys in addition to being fast. I like the current speed/strength caps, i.e. 30 to 50 ....... if you've ever played -TOG-(where skills are 1-20), I've had players cap at 9 (same as 22.5 in RZA) .... that's a disaster as the player suddenly has no value and no real suitable position to play him. (2) jumping ? ... hmmm, would've thought that "agility" covered jumping quite well. (4) intelligent draftees .... I'm thinking "chicken and egg" here ... i.e. are the draftees smart because they need to be, or are they smart because nobody wants a dumb draftee ? (5) you're more-or-less referring to "age deterioration" here, it happens in -TOG-(training slows at 28, more-or-less stops at 30, skills decline at 31 and really plummet at 33), sounds great ??? No .... two problems (a) it isn't widely known in -TOG- so you have newbees who've inherited an old team which is deteriorating in front of their eyes and they can't see it ! (b) if Pete introduces this (and I know he's well aware of the situation), then I really hope that he gives us a LONG period of introduction, because your Star 27-year old WR just suddenly became worthless overnight. (7) Really strongly disagree with you re training, I LOVE the training in RZA, it is SO flexible, you can fine tune it ..... in -TOG- you have to have ALL your roster on the same training intensity (i.e. if one guy is overtrained and needs a rest, but the others don't ... tough luck). Over here at RZA you need to put in the work re monitoring training, but it is worth it. I don't think anything needs to change re training and it's as hard work for me as anyone as I currently have an almost full roster plus a full YA (i.e. 70 + 22 ). (8) Agree with the draft board, it's often easy to think "I'd pick this guy at 10th to 20th", would be nice to have the draft board more easy to maneouvre/manipulate, a button to put the guy at 13th or whatever would be great. Thanks for the feedback and your thoughts on my thoughts. My thoughts on your thoughts ... 
1. To an extent ... but Strength here seems to encompass weight as well. If you put Calvin Johnson as an OL then he'd get run over by 350 pound DLs. I guess I'd like to see player types something like: Big Guys (essentially your 300 pounders) Strength 40-50 Speed 10-30 Fast Guys Strength 10-30 Speed 40-50 Medium/Balanced Guys Strength 24-41 Speed 24-41 So your Calvin Johnson would have say 30 strength - enough to mix it with your medium guys like linebackers but not enough to challenge your 300 pound linemen. Your 40+ speed and strength freaks would be possible but very rare. Your 24/24 guys would be very rare and would probably be cut barring insane intelligence. After all some guys don't make it. 2. Manual suggests agility ... doesn't cover jumping - I guess I'm thinking of it as a replacement for jumping. 5. To clarify ... I'm not talking about age deterioration. I'm talking about speeding up training for younger players and slowing it for older players ... so your old guys don't regress they just plateau. 7. Again to clarify, not talking about any major changes to training - just saving your entire settings. That way if you want to put your squad on a full PC catch-up for a week (using quick settings) then you can revert straight back to how it was afterwards without having to set them all again. |
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panoramix
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posted: 2012-03-25 17:08:38 (ID: 33678) Report Abuse |
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Admin wrote:We do not act to get the maximum number of players. If this would be the case we wouldn't have playbooks, drafts and so on - we would have a much more simplified game...
Just think about it Pete, a complicated playbook don't count, when the maximum part of the winning teams demonstrates that a very short PB with only run is enough to win a game. Realism don't mean complication, only precision in explaining the tracts of a player or an action. This is not intended as an indictment of you. You created this great game and I'm grateful of you: this is only mt thoughts, expressed in a language that is not my own. |
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Swordpriest1
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posted: 2012-03-26 01:30:43 (ID: 33699) Report Abuse |
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aye.... MikeMikeMikeMike reflects a Me from a few months back when I was a newb...
just know that I'm with ya Mike on your suggestions. I'm not a -TOG-vet so I only have basic football understanding to fall back on  (slight jab to the detractors but you'll excuse me as I do respect all well thoughtout opinions)
I was actually shocked at the amount of people who didnt want height/weight specs on a given player to better judge parameters. I would have thought this being a virtual game and not representations of real life players such basic knowledge would be paramount to getting the most out of said player. |
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Admin
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posted: 2012-03-26 06:08:42 (ID: 33708) |
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panoramix wrote:
Admin wrote:We do not act to get the maximum number of players. If this would be the case we wouldn't have playbooks, drafts and so on - we would have a much more simplified game...
Just think about it Pete, a complicated playbook don't count, when the maximum part of the winning teams demonstrates that a very short PB with only run is enough to win a game. Realism don't mean complication, only precision in explaining the tracts of a player or an action. This is not intended as an indictment of you. You created this great game and I'm grateful of you: this is only mt thoughts, expressed in a language that is not my own. I understand, but the "go for max players" call was just wrong, I had to correct that. |
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JonnyP
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posted: 2012-03-30 10:20:24 (ID: 34128) Report Abuse |
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OK, after nearly 6 months in the game, these are my impressions - focussing on the game engine, and that's the main reason we are here
PASSING A lot has been said about the passing game, and I now believe there is a definite problem in the game engine with the way passes are handled. They are very much all or nothing - up to 12 yards or break for TD. I drafted a good QB at the end of season 1, develop a decently strong OL, and 4-5 speedy receivers. I still rarely see completions of over 9 yards. FBs/RBs with about 40 speed are commonly bagging 15-20 yard gains, but yet my 49 speed receiver has a max of 9 yards and is averaging close to 6. He was drafted as a KR, so his carrying skill and agility are both very good. However, every time a receiver breaks through his coverage it is a TD. The same goes for running plays. Not every 40-50 yard completion should go for a TD! - receivers need a better chance of making yards after the catch - DBs need a better chance of making tackles after a receiver has broken through. - the result is, we need to see many more passing plays in the 10-30 yard range Blitzing and Sacks Just as passing yardage needs to be tweaked, the defense needs a better chance of catching the QB, and blitzing players need a chance of catching RB/FB in the backfield for big losses. I have a fairly big/fast DL, most are now 30+ spd/40+ str - and yet they STILL cannot catch QBs for even bot/newbie teams - repeatedly it tells me 'xxxxxx has broken through', or the stats show 0 successful blocks by opposing OL, but yet the sacks column remains empty. Blitzing the run should be a valid, but risky tactic, especially against runs around the end of the LOS. A sweeping HB runs into a blitzing OLB on that side... BANG... 6 yard loss and increased chance of a fumble. But if he has the speed/agility to avoid the tackle, he can exploit the space. Screen passes are specifically set up to exploit a blitzing defense. That is the reason for their very existence! Special teams PR/KR are far too consistent. Yes the averages are about right, but the way those averages are achieved is wrong. In reality a PR will achieve a decent average of about 10 yards per return as follows: 0, 1, 15, 14, 0, 6, 3, -2, 51TD Not 7,12,11,10,8,12, etc The same goes for KR, though they are a little more consistent in real life. Turnovers In reality, only about 1 in 4 fumbles are returned by the recovering team, and about 2/3 of interceptions. Commonly these returns are very short - just a couple of yards, even negative yardage. A team will typically score maybe 5-10 TDs from turnovers in a 16 game season. Would training an offense in tackling make much difference? Maybe, but equally, are the defensive players on the field trained in blocking/carrying? Tackling Only about 50% of tackles should be solo tackles, we need assists - where 2/3/4 defensive players combine to bring an offensive player down - especially in the case when plays are stuffed at the Line of Scrimmage. And no need to calculate/record a tackler for a play which goes for a TD |
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