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| Main / Discussions / The All-Singing All-Dancing New Passing Engine Thread Search Forum | |
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| Poster | Message |
| posted: 2012-08-21 07:04:54 (ID: 53222) Report Abuse | |
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slider6 wrote:
pete wrote:
Basically this is true OK, I have 2 small examples that I would like to know what is happening. 1st game: Only looking at 1st down in Shotgun 2WR, my opponent ran the ball 3 times in a row. No problem, my defense was set to be biased towards run and it was picked as run all 3 times. My opponent then passed the ball 7 times in a row. Here is the problem, my defense picked run all 7 times! 2nd game: Again, only looking at 1st down in Shotgun 2WR, my opponent ran the ball 4 times then passed it 7 times in a row. This is the same opponent with the same offensive tactics chosen. I changed my defense to be biased toward passing in this situation. For all 4 runs, my defense was pass biased. I understand that. Then on the 1st pass, my defense adjusts to run. Again, I understand that. 2nd pass, my defense adjusts back to pass. Working perfectly so far. Pass 3 through 7, my defense adjusts to run. Um, what? 
I've only looked closely at these 2 games against the same opponent. In the 2nd game, Proset, Big I, & Wishbone on 1st down all seem to react as I would expect given your explanation of the engine using Down/Distance & Formation and my tactics being biased toward passing on 1st down. It is not a hard line for the switch between pass and rush. Much more there is "liquid threshold" on that. You cannot just count the plays, that won't work. If the chance for "knowing" the next play is high enough for the D, it MIGHT be the D switches the defense style. If I would do that the hard way ("oh, 51% pass possible, let's switch from run to pass D") it would be just boring. |
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slider6
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posted: 2012-08-21 18:48:06 (ID: 53306) Report Abuse |
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pete wrote:
slider6 wrote:
pete wrote:
Basically this is true OK, I have 2 small examples that I would like to know what is happening. 1st game: Only looking at 1st down in Shotgun 2WR, my opponent ran the ball 3 times in a row. No problem, my defense was set to be biased towards run and it was picked as run all 3 times. My opponent then passed the ball 7 times in a row. Here is the problem, my defense picked run all 7 times! 2nd game: Again, only looking at 1st down in Shotgun 2WR, my opponent ran the ball 4 times then passed it 7 times in a row. This is the same opponent with the same offensive tactics chosen. I changed my defense to be biased toward passing in this situation. For all 4 runs, my defense was pass biased. I understand that. Then on the 1st pass, my defense adjusts to run. Again, I understand that. 2nd pass, my defense adjusts back to pass. Working perfectly so far. Pass 3 through 7, my defense adjusts to run. Um, what?
I've only looked closely at these 2 games against the same opponent. In the 2nd game, Proset, Big I, & Wishbone on 1st down all seem to react as I would expect given your explanation of the engine using Down/Distance & Formation and my tactics being biased toward passing on 1st down. It is not a hard line for the switch between pass and rush. Much more there is "liquid threshold" on that. You cannot just count the plays, that won't work. If the chance for "knowing" the next play is high enough for the D, it MIGHT be the D switches the defense style. If I would do that the hard way ("oh, 51% pass possible, let's switch from run to pass D") it would be just boring. I understand the predictions being liquid and all, but when my opponent has chosen 7 straight pass plays from a certain formation in a certain down/distance that I have set to favor pass, my D should adjust to pass very quickly. I see that it adjusted to the run after 4 times (which is exactly what I would expect because I have it favoring pass), then it adjusted back to pass after 1 pass (again, exactly as I expect). But he didn't rush from that formation and my D switched to a rush D for the next 5 passes. This is where my problem comes in. The other 3 formations that were used on 1st down, the D reacted as I would expect (starting with pass and adjusting). Hmm, I think I found something that I need to test. It adjusts like I would expect, but may not adjust back once tactics change. |
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| posted: 2012-08-21 18:59:19 (ID: 53309) Report Abuse | |
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Can you asnwer: is this a playbook driven play, or a a play chosen out of your general matchsettings?
And we are talking about a friendly, right? Last edited on 2012-08-21 18:59:41 by pete |
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scottishbronco
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posted: 2012-08-21 19:12:39 (ID: 53315) Report Abuse |
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Last edited on 2012-08-21 19:13:00 by scottishbronco |
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slider6
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posted: 2012-08-21 19:12:54 (ID: 53316) Report Abuse |
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pete wrote:
Can you asnwer: is this a playbook driven play, or a a play chosen out of your general matchsettings? And we are talking about a friendly, right? Yes, it is playbook driven. I'm only focusing on 1st down right now because it's easiest to check for me. Yeah, they are from friendly matches. I'm going to be doing more testing to see if I can figure out what is happening that I don't like and be more precise in what I'm reporting. |
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| posted: 2012-08-21 19:14:05 (ID: 53317) Report Abuse | |
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@Scotty: OK.
@Slider: OK  |
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canonico
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posted: 2012-08-31 16:28:44 (ID: 54719) Report Abuse |
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Ok here is something I just now noticed:
On the current Friendly engine I just realized that there is a description on what the defense is setup to stop (At least I think that is what this means). Examples: 14:22 2 and 5 to go on own 33, BES:0.94339622641509, DB:0.6, BE:0.56603773584906, pass, Marc Barriere (OC) snaps the ball to Costinel Starciuc (QB), Rui Gois (HB/C) gets the ball, he starts running over the right guard, Rui Gois (HB/C) avoids the tackle of Isaiah Manson (DE/L), Rui Gois (HB/C) breaks the tackle of Theodoros Voigt (MLB), he breaks the tackling of Luuk Fledderus (SS/C), he is able to avoid the tackling of Alexandre Vos (FS/L), forward progress: 67 yards (I-formation vs. 3-3-5) The defense wasplaying pass yet it was a run play, this was only the second play of the game mind you soI could not expect the defense to have been playing based on what was getting called, still alot of fail on the part of the secondary! ______________________________________________________ Same example with the both formations coming to play. 12:01 1 and 10 to go on opp 42, Marc Barriere (OC) snaps the ball to Costinel Starciuc (QB), Costinel Starciuc (QB) selected Sebastiao Cavalcante (WR/R) as target, BES:1.06, DB:1.5, BE:1.59, pass, this outer right pass is incomplete, the receiver was not able to make the catch, no progress (I-formation vs. 3-3-5) This time the defense was setup to defend the pass an th eplay was not successfull, aldo I don't know if it was because the defense were well schemed or the receiver got butter hands... ____________________________________________________ Diferent situation with diferent formations 3:51 3 and 10 to go on own 44, Marc Barriere (OC) snaps the ball to Julio Castro (QB), Julio Castro (QB) selected Sebastiao Cavalcante (WR/R) as target, BES:1.06, DB:1, BE:1.06, rush, this outer right pass goes to the receiver, who catches the ball, the result is a 56 yards pass (Wishbone vs. 5-3-3) Again the defense playing the Run got bombed with a long pass. This time no missed tackles. _______________________________________________________ And then in the 3rd quarter this showed up when my team defense was in play vs the 2 WR formation. 2:25 1 and 10 to go on opp 33, Tim Dijkstra (OC) snaps the ball to Jan Stadhouders (QB), Jan Stadhouders (QB) selected Antonius Brouwer (TE/R) as target, BES:0.94339622641509, DB:0.9, BE:0.84905660377358, biased, Tiago Henriques (DE/L) breaks through the line, Tim Bovenberg (FB/R) blocks, overthrown inner right pass, incomplete, no progress (Shotgun 2 WR vs. 3-4-4) & 2:16 2 and 10 to go on opp 33, BES:1.06, DB:1.1, BE:1.166, biased, Thomas Vorstermans (OC) snaps the ball to Dennard Manzella (QB), hands off to Jayden Van der Berg (FB/R), he starts running over the center, Harry Gjerstad (NT) brings Jayden Van der Berg (FB/R) down, nice tackle, forward progress: no gain (Shotgun 2 WR vs. 3-4-4) So after laready reading Pete posting stating that with the new engine the defense will auto adjust when a team is running the same play over and over, I am wondering if this as something to do with it? If so why was it biased towards both the run and the pass? EDIT: To add link to the game. Last edited on 2012-08-31 16:40:49 by canonico |
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bwadders76
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posted: 2012-08-31 21:24:05 (ID: 54758) Report Abuse |
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I have a big reservation about the new engine based on 2 friendlies I've just played.
Main concern is impact plays. In experience a huge play doesn't happen all that often even against poor sides. I have played a side a lot better than me twice losing heavily I get. Picking a quarter from each game I must of had 25 minutes possession this guy had at most 10 plays and the score was 21-21. The remainding 6 quarters over the two games I got smashed in terms of scores and also possession of the ball. Im excluding turnovers from the scores as they can happen at any time it's one of those things which is impossible to replicate. |
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| posted: 2012-08-31 23:22:49 (ID: 54766) Report Abuse | |
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In my friendly, one of my project players with 8 catching caught two long TD passes (66 & 68 yards). One was against the 5-3-3 defense and the other was against 5-2 defense.
It seems you need to strike a balance between formation match-ups versus skill level match-up. Wondering if playing the "right" formation is too important relative to skill levels. Steve SD Blitz |
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canonico
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posted: 2012-08-31 23:35:13 (ID: 54768) Report Abuse |
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Solana_Steve wrote:
Wondering if playing the "right" formation is too important relative to skill levels. At this point, and based on what Ive been seeing I am inclined to say yes. That is probably what is happening, long passes, long runs, they are more common in this test engine, than in the regular engine. Talking only about my team, the same players on this new engine are getting much bigger plays than they are on the regular engine. So must be the miss match in the defensive formations that is causing the fracture. |
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