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| Main / Discussions / Supercup...so many teams, and only 48 qualifying teams for the playoffs Search Forum | |
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bwadders76
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posted: 2012-10-28 12:43:24 (ID: 64073) Report Abuse |
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hosh13 wrote:
I'd like to make a bit of a complaint that might also be relevent to this discussion. There are too many bots! 
How about a way to fill the div 3 leagues 1 at a time. So maybe pick the most popular league (timezone) and fill it's 3.1 first. Then the next most popular league's 3.1, etc. This would give us more humans and less dilution. It would also be MUCH better for the Div 3 teams for their leagues. So you set the amount of SC divisions at the beginning based on the existing humans and then go from there. As teams join they could go into a few supplementary divisions if their were no spaces in the SC proper. The whole benefit for new teams playing in the SC is the financial gains to be made by playing at a maxed out stadium. How will a new team benefit from that when playing in a supplementary league? Also this only solves the issue short term. What if there was a sudden influx from every other online football sim here? Division 3 would soon get full and you would need all the divisions to be available would you not? And thats just a practical answer I'm sure Pete can tell you it would be a nightmare to write. |
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CapitalMistake
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posted: 2012-10-28 12:48:34 (ID: 64075) Report Abuse |
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If you are looking for an ultimate answer that will allow divisions 4,5,6 etc into the Supercup whilst still keeping it fun and fair then I think you're searching for the impossible.
With the time-limit being strict and the understandable want for balance, then I can't see anyway for it progress. You can either look at solving the problem for now, or looking to create an alternative competition as the SC can't adapt within the frame that it has to work in. To try and find the ultimate flexible system within the restraints that it has to abide by, will probably be impossible. EDIT: And I'm sure there are far more intelligent people on here than myself. Can someone please put the limitations of the game and time-frames on this thread so that everyone understands what can and can't be done? IE, the length of season can't be extended to create more game days. IE, We can't (or dont want to) be able to create alternative "Worlds" if the game grows massively. IE, We don't want a knockout only SC to reduce the number of games as it will effect the monies in the game too much. IE We don't want Supercups for each level. For example, a Division 1 only Supercup, division 2 Supercup where each game regardless of stadium size gets the same income. Last edited on 2012-10-28 12:53:44 by CapitalMistake |
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cantalupe
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posted: 2012-10-28 12:54:34 (ID: 64079) Report Abuse |
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Okay, so if the only possible reduction is to 8 teams I'll bring up that old(maybe not so old) proposal of having an extra competition for the people that don't qualify to the POs.
Again, I won't use the exact numbers and I'll use the system that is in use for handball and basketball competitions on a global/continental scale. So you have 224 "qualifying" division with 8 teams. The top 4 go on to the next round with 4 teams in 224 groups of which the top team and 32 lucky losers qualifying for the knock out phase. 18 game days in total. For the teams that do no qualify to the next stage you could run a simultaneous system but playing for the 897th spot or just another round of 7 games just for fun. |
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hosh13
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posted: 2012-10-28 12:56:21 (ID: 64081) Report Abuse |
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bwadders76 wrote:
hosh13 wrote:
I'd like to make a bit of a complaint that might also be relevent to this discussion. There are too many bots!
How about a way to fill the div 3 leagues 1 at a time. So maybe pick the most popular league (timezone) and fill it's 3.1 first. Then the next most popular league's 3.1, etc. This would give us more humans and less dilution. It would also be MUCH better for the Div 3 teams for their leagues. So you set the amount of SC divisions at the beginning based on the existing humans and then go from there. As teams join they could go into a few supplementary divisions if their were no spaces in the SC proper. The whole benefit for new teams playing in the SC is the financial gains to be made by playing at a maxed out stadium. How will a new team benefit from that when playing in a supplementary league? Also this only solves the issue short term. What if there was a sudden influx from every other online football sim here? Division 3 would soon get full and you would need all the divisions to be available would you not? And thats just a practical answer I'm sure Pete can tell you it would be a nightmare to write. There could be compensation. Perhaps the average of all other noobs from the main competition? And these supplementary divisions do not even need to worry about making the playoffs. More fun for them to play against like opponents also. |
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bwadders76
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posted: 2012-10-28 12:56:48 (ID: 64082) Report Abuse |
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As it is there are 7 free game days which allows for 128 participants in the playoffs which covers divisions 1-3 in the current format.
Short term the league is covered but long term when divisions 4,5 and so on are added there just aren't enough free gamedays to create a playoff large enough. Ok the groups can be shortened to groups of 8 (no other number is workable) but then there is lost revenue for those that do not make the playoffs to consider. If you multiply the revenue by 2.15 to compensate for the lost games then the playoff ticket prices is less than the regular season prices which throws it out of sync. If you increase those prices then the playoff teams move further ahead putting more money into these teams which is what we need to avoid hence the stadium condition inclusion. Extending the post season is unworkable because there is just too much time for inactivity for those who don't make the playoffs (also the running costs could bankrupt sides). With current free days 128 sides making the playoffs will be fine for 3 divisions (112 group winners) but we have the same issue when division 4 opens (240 group winners). We need to put into place a long term solution for this otherwise Pete will spend every few seasons rewriting the supercup to accomodate the extra teams. |
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bwadders76
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posted: 2012-10-28 13:12:07 (ID: 64086) Report Abuse |
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If there is no room for movement for creating extra days is it possible to have multiple games per day? OK established teams would have to train PC more often around those times but when there are divisions 5, 6 or even 7 these sides are likely to be at their salary cap anyway so it wouldn't hurt them too much.
The first games could be played at 12:00 and the second at 21:00. Again the issue would then be writing this into the engine and if that is possible. As we will have the same issue with the CoC once divisions 5 onwards are implemented. |
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Buffalo
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posted: 2012-10-28 13:23:04 (ID: 64089) Report Abuse |
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I think that a split of the competition after adding level 4 would be good.
Level 1-3 (1792 teams) play in the SC 1 in 128 divisions with each 14 teams (=13 games). The winner and runnerup of every division (256 teams) go to the playoffs and play in 8 playoffsrounds. Level 4 (2048) play with the actual mode in SC 2. 16 teams in 128 groups. The 64 best teams play in the playoffs in 6 playoff games. If you add Level 5 (4096 teams) you can add 128 more groups (256 divisions). Still 64 teams play in the playoffs of the SC 2. |
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Nogard
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posted: 2012-10-28 13:26:31 (ID: 64091) Report Abuse |
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The scedule problem with an open end of the league levels you could only solve by limit the participate levels.
Example: You have league level 6 But only the teams of league level 1 to 4 could participate in the Supercup. Otherwise you would have allways this problem when you open a new level because there would be allways much more. You can´t handle it with this group round even more if you have to create new groups. An other solution could be a K.O. round before the group round to half the teams. Or you have to restructure the hole SC into a K.O. System like the CofC. Then you could later decide that maybe the teams of league level 1 and 2 only from round 4 in the KO system. Or maybe a walkover for random teams in the first rounds. I don´t see an other solution for the hole future and the involvement of e.g. league level 10, 12, 15 or something like that. |
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bwadders76
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posted: 2012-10-28 13:28:05 (ID: 64092) Report Abuse |
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Buffalo wrote:
I think that a split of the competition after adding level 4 would be good. Level 1-3 (1792 teams) play in the SC 1 in 128 divisions with each 14 teams (=13 games). The winner and runnerup of every division (256 teams) go to the playoffs and play in 8 playoffsrounds. Level 4 (2048) play with the actual mode in SC 2. 16 teams in 128 groups. The 64 best teams play in the playoffs in 6 playoff games. If you add Level 5 (4096 teams) you can add 128 more groups (256 divisions). Still 64 teams play in the playoffs of the SC 2. Level 4 and then Level 5 together over 6000 teams playing for 64 playoff places? So one in every 96 qualifies for the playoffs? But the main issue now is that one in every 37 teams qualifies for the playoffs so we're looking at a solution. Last edited on 2012-10-28 13:28:23 by bwadders76 |
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| posted: 2012-10-28 16:03:42 (ID: 64125) Report Abuse | |
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What is the real problem?
Should more teams participate because there are more teams existing? Then, with additional levels, what ever solution works now, would be not working later, since every level add lots of more teams and you have to add at least ONE more round every time, and there aren't a lot of slots left. Should the basic (48 teams, or maybe 64 teams) system stay the same with 6 playoff rounds? Then we have to find a new system to give the seating. |
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