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| Main / Discussions / new thread about The Shotgun Search Forum | |
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bagss
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posted: 2013-03-01 12:19:19 (ID: 85109) Report Abuse |
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sh8888 wrote:
bagss wrote:
wrote:
I think there is something to the "shotgun is too powerful" argument vs what it's too powerful ? Nice try. 
But I'm not derailing my own thread 
If a new thread about The Shotgun ever appears, I'll willingly contribute to it though. now come on show me what you've got  |
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sh8888
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posted: 2013-03-01 12:58:07 (ID: 85114) Report Abuse |
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Holmeboy summed it up nicely here
"The big problem is RBs playing as FBs in SG formations. It makes the SG formation too strong, especially 4wr. Because if you line up in dime/335 you get killed on the ground, or if you line up in 4-3/3-4 you get roasted through the air." I agree with this. The SG4 seems a bit too much of a win-win formation. (i.e. good for the pass, good for the run) I don't think it is win-win in real-life, but in RZA it seems to be. Maybe this is just speculation, but I also think that the SG4 is starting to become very popular. Some teams are adopting it as their 'base formation' .... that suggests that it definitely does work. I just hope that SG4 never becomes the new Darkwing. I'd hate to play game after game and for every opponent to just line-up in SG4 all the time ... boring 
anyway ...... Bagss, you are the original Shotgun-rusher .... so you tell us all about the Shotgun 4, you know the formation better than anybody |
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bagss
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posted: 2013-03-01 13:21:31 (ID: 85116) Report Abuse |
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sh8888 wrote:
Holmeboy summed it up nicely here "The big problem is RBs playing as FBs in SG formations. It makes the SG formation too strong, especially 4wr. Because if you line up in dime/335 you get killed on the ground, or if you line up in 4-3/3-4 you get roasted through the air." So the problems is not with the formation itself but with formation missmatches and lazy managers who don't want to(don't have time to) scout their opponents and set up their playbooks in a proper way. Running and passing can be stoped it's just about knowing when your opponent does it and not complaining that SG4 is overpowered cause You didn't scouted him correctly and used wrong formations vs his play style.. And I thought there would be a discussion here and now I'm just disgusted  |
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sh8888
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posted: 2013-03-01 13:29:48 (ID: 85117) Report Abuse |
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bagss wrote:
sh8888 wrote:
Holmeboy summed it up nicely here "The big problem is RBs playing as FBs in SG formations. It makes the SG formation too strong, especially 4wr. Because if you line up in dime/335 you get killed on the ground, or if you line up in 4-3/3-4 you get roasted through the air." So the problems is not with the formation itself but with formation missmatches and lazy managers who don't want to(don't have time to) scout their opponents and set up their playbooks in a proper way. Running and passing can be stoped it's just about knowing when your opponent does it and not complaining that SG4 is overpowered cause You didn't scouted him correctly and used wrong formations vs his play style.. And I thought there would be a discussion here and now I'm just disgusted lol But I wonder if the formation mis-matches are more extreme with SG4 than with other formation mis-matches. " it's just about knowing when your opponent does it " ..... in theory, but in practice it's not that easy .... the fact that the Defense continually 'adjusts' to the Offense can work against you and leave you exposed in the wrong formation. |
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bagss
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posted: 2013-03-01 13:49:41 (ID: 85118) Report Abuse |
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I think people are only complaining about SG4 cause noone would even think about trying to stop rush from Big I with 3-3-5 or Dime and yet they think if it doesnt work against one rush it will miraculously work against another
wrote:
the fact that the Defense continually 'adjusts' to the Offense can work against you and leave you exposed in the wrong formation. It only adjust when your predictions are wrong (expected pass and they've runed), if it's good nothing changes. You get exposed only when opponent changed something in his pb, but that's just bigger risk bigger reward situation here. You can't defend with mediocore 4-3-4 and expect wonderfull results here. |
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JonnyP
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posted: 2013-03-01 14:30:08 (ID: 85121) Report Abuse |
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Am I alone in thinking the I-formation and Pro-Set are now the overpowered formations, and that passing from the I is too effective, ditto running from the Pro-Set.
In reality, the I is a power running formation allowing flexible points of attack in all areas. In terms of passing, the slow release of the 2 backs mean that it is not as effective as the Pro Set in terms of passing. The Pro-Set is weaker when running inside the Tackles, but pretty good for outside runs, and the wider spread of the backs means quick release for blocking and receiving duties. Both formations are very powerful when running to the strong side, but not so to the weak side unless the lead blocking back is extremely good. The ROLB has a field day if the offense runs to the weak side without sufficient blocking. That's in real life of course |
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hosh13
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posted: 2013-03-01 14:56:58 (ID: 85122) Report Abuse |
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My view -
NOW - if a "RB" is in the SG4WR then there seems to be no, or very little, penalty to the passing game. By "RB" I don't necessarily mean a player in that position - it could be a FB that is trained to run instead of block. SHOULD BE - if a "RB" is in the SG4WR then the D should have more pressure on the QB B4 the ball is even snapped and also play the run better since they will be more expecting it. The net result would be that they play the pass the same (bias on run offset by QB pressure) and the run better in this situation. A SG formation is a "PASS" formation. It should only be effective at running the ball if done sparingly. This is sort of like a "pass to set up the run" thing. But as soon as a D realizes an O is running as much as passing out of the SG4WR (and to a slightly lesser degree the SG2WR), then it's bias, and ability, to play the run should increase at a higher rate then the pass D ability drops off imo. i.e. the more you run out of the SG, the less efficient it should be as an overall O. |
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sh8888
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posted: 2013-03-01 15:03:33 (ID: 85123) Report Abuse |
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JonnyP wrote:
Am I alone in thinking the I-formation and Pro-Set are now the overpowered formations, and that passing from the I is too effective, ditto running from the Pro-Set. I'd be reluctant to use the phrase 'overpowered formation' as it's open to interpretation ...... but I agree that running from the Pro-Set always has been very effective, even back in the days of 'The Running Engine' (Season 2 etc). |
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Chareos
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posted: 2013-03-01 15:48:49 (ID: 85127) Report Abuse |
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i would like to have runs from the shotgun with a probability to be stopped rather far in the backfield .. so loss of 1-4 yards if the defense is working good.
if the defense is going for a pass defense it would not hurt the shotgun rush but if the defense has the right answer this would lead to a big loss. so you would have to decide if you want to take this risk |
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| posted: 2013-03-01 15:57:50 (ID: 85130) Report Abuse | |
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Chareos wrote:
i would like to have runs from the shotgun with a probability to be stopped rather far in the backfield .. so loss of 1-4 yards if the defense is working good. if the defense is going for a pass defense it would not hurt the shotgun rush but if the defense has the right answer this would lead to a big loss. so you would have to decide if you want to take this risk it is not working that way. If the possibility is -1 to -4 yards "success", then there wouldnt be a choice anymore. It has to be something like -5 to +2...numbers are placeholders |
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