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| Main / Discussions / Sacks Search Forum | |
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sh8888
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posted: 2013-03-26 14:30:40 (ID: 88285) Report Abuse |
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I wanted to discuss Sacks.
Disclaimer :- I've got no vested interest in changes to the Sack Algorithm, I'm just a bit concerned when I hear some comments such as "There should be 10 times more sacks than there are now" etc ..... Let's try and get a bit more analytical to see whether Sacks are currently realistic or not. btw .... try not to get obsessed by 'Blitzing', I know that some people (Panoramix, for example) want to see more blitzing and more targeted/controlled blitzing ..... but I'd like to see Sacks (in general) discussed.... in addition to Blitzing if that's what you want. OK .... some stats to get the ball rolling. These are from Dragons 1.1 (I know it better than the other Leagues). I've used the filter of "League Games without Playoffs" (in order to get 16 games of a good standard, to compare against the NFL). Team Sacks :- 1 SF49ers 27 2 Zaragoza Maños 25 3 Steely Phils 21 4 Mystic Warriors 21 5 Majalorca Pigs 19 Individual Sacks 1 Billy Doležel FAJNY TIM 11 2 Max Kauffman Steely Phils 10 3 Renato Severson The Northern Riviera 8 4 Maamuni Cisse Steely Phils 8 5 Stepan Košuta Duran Durans 8 NFL Team Sacks 1 Denver 52 1 Rams 52 3 Bengals 51 4 Packers 47 5 Texans 44 5 Vikings 44 NFL Individual Sacks 1 J.J. Watt HOU 20.5 2 Aldon Smith SF 19.5 3 Von Miller DEN 18.5 4 Cameron Wake MIA 15.0 5 Clay Matthews GB 13.0 A few points :- - Admin says that higher blitzing (up to 25%) is likely soon, presumably this will increase sack totals ? - Currently no CornerBack blitzing in RZA, is CB blitzing even a tiny factor in the NFL or is it worth ignoring ? - Are the 1.1 teams/players shown in these lists comparable to the NFL players in this list .... i.e. will the sack totals in RZA in a few seasons time (as players get better and better) be similar to NFL sack totals ? - If the Sack algorithm was changed (to make sacks easier), would it result in bizarre games vs weaker passing teams/Bots where the sacks totals were just ludicrous ..... or should they actually be very high ? btw ... as already said, the focus is on Dragons because that's the league I know .... I've made an assumption that Dragons is an 'average' league (for statistical purposes) .... so I'm guessing that there are both higher sack totals and lower sack totals in other leagues ....... the "my league is stronger than your league" argument is pretty much irrelevant for the purposes of this discussion. So .... what's your view on Sacks in RZA ? p.s :- Please try to be reasonably polite 
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Ranagol
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posted: 2013-03-26 14:59:07 (ID: 88287) Report Abuse |
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Very few things in RZA are comparable to the NFL numbers. At least not at the stage the game is at right now.
Regarding sacks, even if we increase the possibility of a sack to 2x to get the "realistic" numbers right now, that will hurt the game later on when teams have their players on the best possible level with a sustainable economy (which btw SHOULD represent the level of an NFL team IMO). The 25% blitzing will surely result in more sacks both total and individual. Introducing DT and NT rushing the QB would mean an "increased blitzing" in itself too, which will contribute to the sack stats. Then again, until RBs start blocking on pass pays and FBs start blocking "realistically" based on their blocking skills, even these "increased blitzings" could tip the scale into the wrong direction. So IMO too many parts of the game are missing to draw any relevant conclusions from comparing RZA stats to NFL stats. We should be patient. If Pete allows a litte mentioning of another football sim game, GLB was considered and announced as a "beta" until their 32nd season I believe. RZA is in the 7th season...see where I'm trying to go with this? Think of yourself as a developer and tester of a game that will shine a few years from now, but you can still enjoy it in the present.  |
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hosh13
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posted: 2013-03-26 15:11:44 (ID: 88289) Report Abuse |
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Anything that brings the game more into line with reality is obviously better. But the passing game is already weak so unless that is improved at the same time, then making the pass rush stronger would be a disaster.
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KingOfTh3Hil
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posted: 2013-03-26 15:27:00 (ID: 88292) Report Abuse |
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sh8888 wrote:
- Are the 1.1 teams/players shown in these lists comparable to the NFL players in this list .... i.e. will the sack totals in RZA in a few seasons time (as players get better and better) be similar to NFL sack totals ? But the opponent offensive lina, FB, Te aso will also improve, so there would be (in my thinking) that teams create the same amount of sacks now as they will in 4-5 seasons away. Becourse players d is at the same level as the opponent o. It its a lower rated team against a higher, then the difference will be lower later on, and that makes me thinking that it should in total be more sacks created now then in 4-5 seasons? Maybe alot of ppl isent passing enough yet aswell... |
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sh8888
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posted: 2013-03-26 15:52:22 (ID: 88298) Report Abuse |
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KingOfTh3Hil wrote:
But the opponent offensive lina, FB, Te aso will also improve, so there would be (in my thinking) that teams create the same amount of sacks now as they will in 4-5 seasons away. OK, here are the Sack stats (16 league games only) for 3 of the bigger Dragons Teams that have been in 1.1 from the beginning .... I'm not quite sure how to interpret these Stats, my view is this ..... There was a big jump in Sacks in Season 6, this coincides with the V2 'Passing' Engine (and more teams trying to Pass etc) :- Sacks for Seasons 2 to 7 :- Majalorca Pigs - 8/3/8/5/14/19 Mystic Warriors - 12/20/8/5/22/21 SF49ers - 16/18/10/8/25/27 |
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theguystv
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posted: 2013-03-26 16:47:29 (ID: 88301) Report Abuse |
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Thanks for letting everyone know I have the best sack duo in our league
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Meitheisman
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posted: 2013-03-26 17:35:15 (ID: 88306) Report Abuse |
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sh8888 wrote:
KingOfTh3Hil wrote:
But the opponent offensive lina, FB, Te aso will also improve, so there would be (in my thinking) that teams create the same amount of sacks now as they will in 4-5 seasons away. OK, here are the Sack stats (16 league games only) for 3 of the bigger Dragons Teams that have been in 1.1 from the beginning .... I'm not quite sure how to interpret these Stats, my view is this ..... There was a big jump in Sacks in Season 6, this coincides with the V2 'Passing' Engine (and more teams trying to Pass etc) :- Sacks for Seasons 2 to 7 :- Majalorca Pigs - 8/3/8/5/14/19 Mystic Warriors - 12/20/8/5/22/21 SF49ers - 16/18/10/8/25/27 What you also have to consider is that these teams being some of the best in RZA means that they more often than not face weaker opponents which imo should mean more sacks. In the NFL, where mostly even teams face each other the Defense manages to sack the QB on 5+% of passing plays. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_sacked_perc_active.htm So, these teams should get sacks on at the very least 5% of passing plays against them... I can't be bothered to take the time to go game by game and see how many passing plays these teams have faced but I randomly looked at 3 of the weakest teams in your league meaning that their QBs should get sacked on way more than 5% of plays... - Panthers: 784 att, 37 sacks allowed: 4.7% - Suits and Sandwiches: 295 att, 5 sacks allowed: 1.7% - Babies: 267 att, 1 sack allowed: 0.4% While I'm at it I'm going to look at the sack % of some top teams in your league too. - Pigs: 548 att, 8 sacks allowed: 1.5% - 49ers: 597 att, 17 sacks allowed: 2.8% - Mystic Warriors: 1075 att, 23 sacks allowed: 2.1% So, unless everyone heavily invested in offensive linemen and evasive QBs while neglecting defensive linemen then the sack % should be much higher. For comparison, among active NFL QBs here are the career stats of the best ones: - P. Manning: sacked on 3.1% of pass att - Brees: 3.7% - M. Ryan: 4.1% - E. Manning: 4.6% - Palmer: 4.7% Now these were the 5 best, most QBs get sacked way more often, here are some examples: - -G.O.A.T-: 4.8% - P. Rivers: 5.8% - Cutler: 6.3% - Flacco: 6.5% - Rodgers: 7.3% - Big Ben: 8.4% - Vick: 8.6% In conclusion I think the sack total should be higher but we should not measure it by using absolute numbers but rather % because if your opponents pass less than they run you'll obviously get fewer sacks. |
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panoramix
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posted: 2013-03-26 20:21:42 (ID: 88332) Report Abuse |
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sh8888 wrote:- Admin says that higher blitzing (up to 25%) is likely soon, presumably this will increase sack totals ?
No, because the actual blitz management is absolutely useless. If you can't choose the blitzer and the play, blitzing becomes just one of the many ways to give a big hole to your opponent's WRs or HBs. |
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mikemike778
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posted: 2013-03-26 23:05:38 (ID: 88359) Report Abuse |
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panoramix wrote:
sh8888 wrote:- Admin says that higher blitzing (up to 25%) is likely soon, presumably this will increase sack totals ?
No, because the actual blitz management is absolutely useless. If you can't choose the blitzer and the play, blitzing becomes just one of the many ways to give a big hole to your opponent's WRs or HBs. Yep its pretty bad at the moment. You can't really have a specialist blitzer - ie one with a trait and one designed to be a pass rusher as even with a 25% blitz, in a 3-4 it means there is only a 6% chance that dude is going to blitz. Nonsense really as GB are obviously going to get Clay to rush the passer more than say A J Hawk. Would be better to set a % that each player will blitz - ie a 50% chance your MLB will go, 10% chance your ROLB will go etc and if you absolutely have to max it to one player then if both players roll the 'I'm going to blitz numbers' then the game picks one at random. Adds game planning opportunities as well - if you know someone likes to send their ROLB on a blitz then you can run left to take advantage. Last edited on 2013-03-26 23:06:14 by mikemike778 |
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hosh13
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posted: 2013-03-27 06:57:43 (ID: 88386) Report Abuse |
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hosh13 wrote:
Anything that brings the game more into line with reality is obviously better. But the passing game is already weak so unless that is improved at the same time, then making the pass rush stronger would be a disaster. .....but on further thought........ this might actually be a large chunk of the solution. If a blitz means that there is an increased chance of both a sack AND a reception, as it should. I guess it depends on how good of a blitzer the player is. If he's real good then probably the chance of a sack goes up, and due to great pressure offsetting a more dilute secondary, the chance of a completion isn't much greater. So in summary, if pete introduces the 25% blitz option, I hope both the sack AND completion rate go up as a result. |
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