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| Main / Discussions / Defensive Line in 3-4 vs 4-3 Search Forum | |
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Lohengrin
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posted: 2013-04-27 12:24:26 (ID: 93687) Report Abuse |
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I'm wondering, what are the in-game roles of the defensive line in these two schemes? What I mean is - in the 3-4, the defensive line makeup is much different than 4-3. In a 3-4, the line are all like DTs where their primary goal is to fill gaps and to stop the run and the guys responsible for getting to the QB are primarily the OLBs. In a 4-3 scheme, the interior DTs are usually larger, run stuffers but the DEs are fast, agile, pass rushers. Often, you will see a guy who is a 4-3 DE in college come to the pros and line up as a 3-4 LB and vice versa.
Are these kinds of distinctions made in this game? If I'm setting up a lineup, I would choose a much different skillset for 3-4 vice 4-3, and I would expect that an OLB would be able to shift seamlessly into a 4-3 DE without much of a penalty. How are the DL/LB dynamics handled in the engine with these two formations? |
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scottishbronco
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posted: 2013-04-27 14:42:54 (ID: 93709) Report Abuse |
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Lohengrin wrote:
I'm wondering, what are the in-game roles of the defensive line in these two schemes? What I mean is - in the 3-4, the defensive line makeup is much different than 4-3. In a 3-4, the line are all like DTs where their primary goal is to fill gaps and to stop the run and the guys responsible for getting to the QB are primarily the OLBs. In a 4-3 scheme, the interior DTs are usually larger, run stuffers but the DEs are fast, agile, pass rushers. Often, you will see a guy who is a 4-3 DE in college come to the pros and line up as a 3-4 LB and vice versa. Are these kinds of distinctions made in this game? If I'm setting up a lineup, I would choose a much different skillset for 3-4 vice 4-3, and I would expect that an OLB would be able to shift seamlessly into a 4-3 DE without much of a penalty. How are the DL/LB dynamics handled in the engine with these two formations? I'm glad this subject has people talking and thinking. It wasn't until i read this post that it dawned on me that the game engine will take into account the total teamwork at the line of scrimmage, before the individual player skills are calculated. Then the individual skills are assessed and a play is calculated. Sooo my theory is that if we only have 3 players on the Dline, could this be giving unbalanced results? |
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Fummer
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posted: 2013-04-27 14:49:06 (ID: 93710) Report Abuse |
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I read th OP as the question: will there be an OOPP(out of position penalty) if i lineup a OLB at DE or vice versa? And yes there will.
Last edited on 2013-04-27 14:51:46 by Fummer |
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holmeboy
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posted: 2013-04-27 14:52:25 (ID: 93712) Report Abuse |
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Fummer wrote:
I read th OP as the question: will there be an OOPP(out of position penalty) if i lineup a OLB at DE or vice versa? And yes you will. I think he means is it similar to real life where DEs in a 3-4 are built more like DTs with hybrid DE/OLB players generating a pass rush. Unlike the 4-3 where the pass rush comes from quicker, more agile DEs. As far as I'm aware its not like that. The DEs in a 3-4 D will play the same as DEs in a 4-3 D. Last edited on 2013-04-27 14:53:40 by holmeboy |
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sh8888
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posted: 2013-04-27 14:58:39 (ID: 93713) Report Abuse |
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holmeboy wrote:
Fummer wrote:
I read th OP as the question: will there be an OOPP(out of position penalty) if i lineup a OLB at DE or vice versa? And yes you will. I think he means is it similar to real life where DEs in a 3-4 are built more like DTs with hybrid DE/OLB players generating a pass rush. Unlike the 4-3 where the pass rush comes from quicker, more agile DEs. As far as I'm aware its not like that. The DEs in a 3-4 D will play the same as DEs in a 4-3 D. Exactly. Think about it .... even if you had two 'types' of DE in your Roster , how do you put type-1 in for playing 3-4 , and type-2 in for playing 4-3. It's a game, and there are obviously some limitations that exist by the mere fact that it's a game. |
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hosh13
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posted: 2013-04-27 15:07:31 (ID: 93716) Report Abuse |
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scottishbronco wrote:
Sooo my theory is that if we only have 3 players on the Dline, could this be giving unbalanced results? Hopefully the TW calculation would include ILBs as well. I'd like to think it included TE/FBs and the OLBs but I doubt it does that unfortunately. |
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Fummer
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posted: 2013-04-27 15:40:22 (ID: 93723) Report Abuse |
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sh8888 wrote:
holmeboy wrote:
Fummer wrote:
I read th OP as the question: will there be an OOPP(out of position penalty) if i lineup a OLB at DE or vice versa? And yes you will. I think he means is it similar to real life where DEs in a 3-4 are built more like DTs with hybrid DE/OLB players generating a pass rush. Unlike the 4-3 where the pass rush comes from quicker, more agile DEs. As far as I'm aware its not like that. The DEs in a 3-4 D will play the same as DEs in a 4-3 D. Exactly. Think about it .... even if you had two 'types' of DE in your Roster , how do you put type-1 in for playing 3-4 , and type-2 in for playing 4-3. It's a game, and there are obviously some limitations that exist by the mere fact that it's a game. So, you (lohengrin) get a lot of answers to questions you may or may not have asked. |
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Lohengrin
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posted: 2013-04-27 16:05:40 (ID: 93726) Report Abuse |
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Hah, sorry guys - guess that was more a stream of consciousness thought than a clear question.
My real questions were this: for those who have been playing the game for a while, do you notice DEs get more sacks in 4-3 vice 3-4? And do you notice that the more successful 4-3 DEs are built differently than successful 3-4 DEs? Same with OLBs? In the NFL most teams have a "base" defense - in fact a lot of defensive coordinators are broken down into 3-4 or 4-3 defensive coaches. The main reason behind that is you do indeed need a different personnel lineup for the two. Think back to when Jets first round pick Jonathan Vilma was sent to New Orleans - that was because the Jets were going from a base 4-3 to a 3-4 defense and Vilma is a 4-3 ILB. As great as he was in the 4-3 (he was defensive ROY), he struggled in the different scheme. When I started playing this game, I was under this impression, that you had to build your defense a certain way if you were going to run mainly 3-4 or 4-3 ... so I'm guessing this is not the case? Last edited on 2013-04-27 16:08:25 by Lohengrin |
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dark_wing
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posted: 2013-04-27 16:38:29 (ID: 93730) Report Abuse |
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Lohengrin wrote:
Hah, sorry guys - guess that was more a stream of consciousness thought than a clear question. My real questions were this: for those who have been playing the game for a while, do you notice DEs get more sacks in 4-3 vice 3-4? And do you notice that the more successful 4-3 DEs are built differently than successful 3-4 DEs? Same with OLBs? In the NFL most teams have a "base" defense - in fact a lot of defensive coordinators are broken down into 3-4 or 4-3 defensive coaches. The main reason behind that is you do indeed need a different personnel lineup for the two. Think back to when Jets first round pick Jonathan Vilma was sent to New Orleans - that was because the Jets were going from a base 4-3 to a 3-4 defense and Vilma is a 4-3 ILB. As great as he was in the 4-3 (he was defensive ROY), he struggled in the different scheme. When I started playing this game, I was under this impression, that you had to build your defense a certain way if you were going to run mainly 3-4 or 4-3 ... so I'm guessing this is not the case? In this game DE-s are passrushers, allways...  Last edited on 2013-04-27 16:39:21 by dark_wing |
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Lohengrin
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posted: 2013-04-27 16:45:24 (ID: 93733) Report Abuse |
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dark_wing wrote:
In this game DE-s are passrushers, allways... Whoa - so OLBs are never pass rushers regardless of base defense? Or are they only considered a pass rusher if they are set to blitz? |
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