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| Main / Rookie Area / K/P out of position Search Forum | |
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| Poster | Message |
| posted: 2024-01-25 15:47:24 (ID: 100180679) Report Abuse | |
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gp-Rurik wrote:
JohnHW wrote:
I have played against someone using other positions as their K and P and presumably just taking the performance hit on their special teams kicking capabilities. I can't think that's good value though as 53 players is surely enough for the other positions so presumably they made a mistake. I only raise the point to say that someone has done it, not that I think it's a good idea. My dilemma is more associated with developing the individual player's AGI but also keeping wages as low as possible as my 48.5K guy who's a 4.5* rating is only 50k right now and he'd be in the hundreds of thousands if I developed them with max AGI and other skills. There is only a very limited way to keep wages in check. The 1st is, train only the most important skill, for example kicking, as high as you want of possible and keep any 2nd skill value, including agility, as low as needed to have him at that wage level you want. Say you want about 140K, which is about average value of 43 of 2+ skills. Now you train Kicking to 50 means all other skills can't be higher than 36. Then you have a high skill kicker, with the wage of about 140K instead of much much more. But the con on this is, he has only 36 vision and agility. Strength can be 50, it's not a wage part. The other way to keep wages in check is, to set yourself a limit and all skills do go max to that limit, like 43. Then you have a kicker with 43 kicking, but also vision and agility have that. What's better is up to you to decide, there is no real evidence what works best, but it seems the 1-skill-approach has it's limits, but same is true to all-skills-on-the-same-value. |
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| Quote Reply Edit | |
| posted: 2024-01-26 14:42:20 (ID: 100180703) Report Abuse | |
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jack6 wrote:
gp-Rurik wrote:
JohnHW wrote:
I have played against someone using other positions as their K and P and presumably just taking the performance hit on their special teams kicking capabilities. I can't think that's good value though as 53 players is surely enough for the other positions so presumably they made a mistake. I only raise the point to say that someone has done it, not that I think it's a good idea. My dilemma is more associated with developing the individual player's AGI but also keeping wages as low as possible as my 48.5K guy who's a 4.5* rating is only 50k right now and he'd be in the hundreds of thousands if I developed them with max AGI and other skills. There is only a very limited way to keep wages in check. The 1st is, train only the most important skill, for example kicking, as high as you want of possible and keep any 2nd skill value, including agility, as low as needed to have him at that wage level you want. Say you want about 140K, which is about average value of 43 of 2+ skills. Now you train Kicking to 50 means all other skills can't be higher than 36. Then you have a high skill kicker, with the wage of about 140K instead of much much more. But the con on this is, he has only 36 vision and agility. Strength can be 50, it's not a wage part. The other way to keep wages in check is, to set yourself a limit and all skills do go max to that limit, like 43. Then you have a kicker with 43 kicking, but also vision and agility have that. What's better is up to you to decide, there is no real evidence what works best, but it seems the 1-skill-approach has it's limits, but same is true to all-skills-on-the-same-value. I understand your perspective; but I'm trying for a different strategy. So I am training all of my players to max AGI; then plan to train 4-5 skills for every player evenly so every position has max physicals and primary/secondary/tertiary skills. |
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| Quote Reply Edit | |
| posted: 2024-01-26 14:54:21 (ID: 100180704) Report Abuse | |
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gp-Rurik wrote:
I understand your perspective; but I'm trying for a different strategy. So I am training all of my players to max AGI; then plan to train 4-5 skills for every player evenly so every position has max physicals and primary/secondary/tertiary skills. It's your decision how you like to train them, but let me be the first one to say don't do it. Why? Agility increases the salary of a player and he will sucks because skills are not trained. As example, a LB with 30 tackling, positioning, vision and agility will play 90% of the times better than a 50 agility player with 15 at those 3 skills. If you add 20 skill at footwork and catching that player will play 95% better. While you take him to 40-50 agility the players salary will go up big and all for nothing. A balanced player is much better and it doesn't hurt your Economy. But, like i said, it's your decision. |
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| Quote Reply Edit | |
| posted: 2024-01-27 14:13:39 (ID: 100180717) Report Abuse | |
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Yes, you need to keep your player's agility just under your other skills so it does not affect his salary.
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| Quote Reply Edit | |
| posted: 2024-01-27 15:10:41 (ID: 100180720) Report Abuse | |
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gp-Rurik wrote:
jack6 wrote:
gp-Rurik wrote:
JohnHW wrote:
I have played against someone using other positions as their K and P and presumably just taking the performance hit on their special teams kicking capabilities. I can't think that's good value though as 53 players is surely enough for the other positions so presumably they made a mistake. I only raise the point to say that someone has done it, not that I think it's a good idea. My dilemma is more associated with developing the individual player's AGI but also keeping wages as low as possible as my 48.5K guy who's a 4.5* rating is only 50k right now and he'd be in the hundreds of thousands if I developed them with max AGI and other skills. There is only a very limited way to keep wages in check. The 1st is, train only the most important skill, for example kicking, as high as you want of possible and keep any 2nd skill value, including agility, as low as needed to have him at that wage level you want. Say you want about 140K, which is about average value of 43 of 2+ skills. Now you train Kicking to 50 means all other skills can't be higher than 36. Then you have a high skill kicker, with the wage of about 140K instead of much much more. But the con on this is, he has only 36 vision and agility. Strength can be 50, it's not a wage part. The other way to keep wages in check is, to set yourself a limit and all skills do go max to that limit, like 43. Then you have a kicker with 43 kicking, but also vision and agility have that. What's better is up to you to decide, there is no real evidence what works best, but it seems the 1-skill-approach has it's limits, but same is true to all-skills-on-the-same-value. I understand your perspective; but I'm trying for a different strategy. So I am training all of my players to max AGI; then plan to train 4-5 skills for every player evenly so every position has max physicals and primary/secondary/tertiary skills. That strategy will lead to a very mixed player setup. You want your wage in check, fine. That means want to spend only a certain amount for a player, not 500K+, which can't be sustained. THAT means, you set yourselve a wage limit = a skill limit of the 2 highest trained skills, INCLUDING agility. Now you want agility to the max, but that is like the other physical skills different for every player, some at 40, some at 43, some at 45, some at 47 and some at 50. Now the math comes in. If trained agility maxed out <= skill cap, all fine, train your 2-4 skills to the limit and fine. If trained agility maxed out > skill cap, you can only train your A-skill, like tackling for a LB, to a limit BELOW the skill cap, to have (AGI + A-skill)/2 = skill cap. If agi is only 1-2 points away, it's not that big, say AGI at 45, you want skill cap at 43 so TAK becomes 41. But if AGI = 50, that's a lot of less points at A-skill to keep the wage in check. And all other skills need to be = A-skill max. So that means your roster will have a wide variation of A-skills trained, since AGI has a wide range. Not sure any did try that, but if you like, give it a go. |
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| Quote Reply Edit | |
| posted: 2024-01-27 18:52:57 (ID: 100180736) Edits found: 1 Report Abuse | |
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jack6 wrote:
gp-Rurik wrote:
jack6 wrote:
gp-Rurik wrote:
JohnHW wrote:
I have played against someone using other positions as their K and P and presumably just taking the performance hit on their special teams kicking capabilities. I can't think that's good value though as 53 players is surely enough for the other positions so presumably they made a mistake. I only raise the point to say that someone has done it, not that I think it's a good idea. My dilemma is more associated with developing the individual player's AGI but also keeping wages as low as possible as my 48.5K guy who's a 4.5* rating is only 50k right now and he'd be in the hundreds of thousands if I developed them with max AGI and other skills. There is only a very limited way to keep wages in check. The 1st is, train only the most important skill, for example kicking, as high as you want of possible and keep any 2nd skill value, including agility, as low as needed to have him at that wage level you want. Say you want about 140K, which is about average value of 43 of 2+ skills. Now you train Kicking to 50 means all other skills can't be higher than 36. Then you have a high skill kicker, with the wage of about 140K instead of much much more. But the con on this is, he has only 36 vision and agility. Strength can be 50, it's not a wage part. The other way to keep wages in check is, to set yourself a limit and all skills do go max to that limit, like 43. Then you have a kicker with 43 kicking, but also vision and agility have that. What's better is up to you to decide, there is no real evidence what works best, but it seems the 1-skill-approach has it's limits, but same is true to all-skills-on-the-same-value. I understand your perspective; but I'm trying for a different strategy. So I am training all of my players to max AGI; then plan to train 4-5 skills for every player evenly so every position has max physicals and primary/secondary/tertiary skills. That strategy will lead to a very mixed player setup. You want your wage in check, fine. That means want to spend only a certain amount for a player, not 500K+, which can't be sustained. THAT means, you set yourselve a wage limit = a skill limit of the 2 highest trained skills, INCLUDING agility. Now you want agility to the max, but that is like the other physical skills different for every player, some at 40, some at 43, some at 45, some at 47 and some at 50. Now the math comes in. If trained agility maxed out <= skill cap, all fine, train your 2-4 skills to the limit and fine. If trained agility maxed out > skill cap, you can only train your A-skill, like tackling for a LB, to a limit BELOW the skill cap, to have (AGI + A-skill)/2 = skill cap. If agi is only 1-2 points away, it's not that big, say AGI at 45, you want skill cap at 43 so TAK becomes 41. But if AGI = 50, that's a lot of less points at A-skill to keep the wage in check. And all other skills need to be = A-skill max. So that means your roster will have a wide variation of A-skills trained, since AGI has a wide range. Not sure any did try that, but if you like, give it a go. The three positions where AGI is key are HB/FB/DL and AGI helps with essentially all of the other positions as well except possibly K/P or SF but not so much. So with this in mind; let's say you're training your QB; here's the mindset: Max AGI+PAS/VIS/POS/FTW/CAR as well as a small amount in CAT and even TAC/BLK for a stiff arm. Now with 5 skills all being developed at the same level; you can save tons of money compared to OVR output. Compare AGI to TAL and this concept plays out strong. AGI-41 is equivalent to 2* of talent which is the lower 30% of total possible output. Two other considerations are here: ●Physical condition; with maxed out AGI you barely have to worry here ●Physicals develop far more quickly at lower ages; I have a 17yo QB in my academy that's going to max his AGI at a decent point next season, thus granting 2 and a half years to train his primary/secondary/tertiary skills plus incidentals to save money. Last edited on 2024-01-27 18:55:04 by gp-Rurik |
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| Quote Reply Edit | |
| posted: 2024-01-27 21:34:24 (ID: 100180740) Report Abuse | |
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gp-Rurik wrote:
The three positions where AGI is key are HB/FB/DL and AGI helps with essentially all of the other positions as well except possibly K/P or SF but not so much. Peter did state clearly and often that AGI does help basically every position. gp-Rurik wrote:
So with this in mind; let's say you're training your QB; here's the mindset: Max AGI+PAS/VIS/POS/FTW/CAR as well as a small amount in CAT and even TAC/BLK for a stiff arm. Maxing AGI means, you need to find the cap, could be 40, 45, 50, you don't know until you see the yellow ! and have a level 20 scout. Maxing PAS/VIS and whatever you like will cost you ALOT of money, if the player is better than 2.5* Talent. I thought you want to SAVE money. gp-Rurik wrote:
Now with 5 skills all being developed at the same level; you can save tons of money compared to OVR output. So now you want to have the biggest bang for your buck and you think high AGI will do that? No, since you alway PAY for high A-TOG-. gp-Rurik wrote:
Compare AGI to TAL and this concept plays out strong. AGI-41 is equivalent to 2* of talent which is the lower 30% of total possible output. This I don't get. You mean the levels you can reach with AGI and Talent. OK fine, AGI 41 is low, but you can not choose the AGI-level, you have to find it. And it can happen the player max at 40, 41, 45 or 50. And you have to pay for the skill. gp-Rurik wrote:
Two other considerations are here: ●Physical condition; with maxed out AGI you barely have to worry here ●Physicals develop far more quickly at lower ages; I have a 17yo QB in my academy that's going to max his AGI at a decent point next season, thus granting 2 and a half years to train his primary/secondary/tertiary skills plus incidentals to save money. Where does this come from that AGI does help with PC? Sure AGI is trained quicker, that's right. But if your player has now already high AGI you already PAY more than if you let AGI develop equal the other skills. That's a fact, since AGI + other highest skill / 2 = wage level. So if AGI > other highest skill level, the wage level is higher than AGI = other highest skill level. |
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| Quote Reply Edit | |
| posted: 2024-01-27 21:38:55 (ID: 100180741) Report Abuse | |
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jack6 wrote:
gp-Rurik wrote:
The three positions where AGI is key are HB/FB/DL and AGI helps with essentially all of the other positions as well except possibly K/P or SF but not so much. Peter did state clearly and often that AGI does help basically every position. gp-Rurik wrote:
So with this in mind; let's say you're training your QB; here's the mindset: Max AGI+PAS/VIS/POS/FTW/CAR as well as a small amount in CAT and even TAC/BLK for a stiff arm. Maxing AGI means, you need to find the cap, could be 40, 45, 50, you don't know until you see the yellow ! and have a level 20 scout. Maxing PAS/VIS and whatever you like will cost you ALOT of money, if the player is better than 2.5* Talent. I thought you want to SAVE money. gp-Rurik wrote:
Now with 5 skills all being developed at the same level; you can save tons of money compared to OVR output. So now you want to have the biggest bang for your buck and you think high AGI will do that? No, since you alway PAY for high A-TOG-. gp-Rurik wrote:
Compare AGI to TAL and this concept plays out strong. AGI-41 is equivalent to 2* of talent which is the lower 30% of total possible output. This I don't get. You mean the levels you can reach with AGI and Talent. OK fine, AGI 41 is low, but you can not choose the AGI-level, you have to find it. And it can happen the player max at 40, 41, 45 or 50. And you have to pay for the skill. gp-Rurik wrote:
Two other considerations are here: ●Physical condition; with maxed out AGI you barely have to worry here ●Physicals develop far more quickly at lower ages; I have a 17yo QB in my academy that's going to max his AGI at a decent point next season, thus granting 2 and a half years to train his primary/secondary/tertiary skills plus incidentals to save money. Where does this come from that AGI does help with PC? Sure AGI is trained quicker, that's right. But if your player has now already high AGI you already PAY more than if you let AGI develop equal the other skills. That's a fact, since AGI + other highest skill / 2 = wage level. So if AGI > other highest skill level, the wage level is higher than AGI = other highest skill level. Sorry for not being clear; max AGI makes it that you don't need to train a players' physicals at all and devote 10-20% to maintaining maximum PC. You are correct and I know my strategy is going to cause some difficulty with my players who have 30+ skills and still need to develop 2-4 more skills w/o a wage increase beyond max A-TOG-. |
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| Quote Reply Edit | |
| posted: 2024-01-27 22:16:34 (ID: 100180745) Report Abuse | |
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gp-Rurik wrote:
Sorry for not being clear; max AGI makes it that you don't need to train a players' physicals at all and devote 10-20% to maintaining maximum PC. If you exchange MAX AGI with TRAIN AGI to the limit you want on skills, we are on the same page. I have right now a limit of 43, so if possible all players are trained to AGI = 43. Not higher (except the red cap overtrain to get the most of capped players at 43, but that's then 43.4 or something), since then they would cost more. Then of course you can train PC with those 10% you jave to train anyway, right. |
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