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| Main / Discussions / Observation about secondary training Search Forum | |
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Swordpriest1
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posted: 2012-02-24 16:56:36 (ID: 29641) Report Abuse |
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Admin wrote:
Swordpriest1 wrote:
See... I didnt even know that. And thats where the "guess work" comes in that I dont like. I really want my players high on awareness and now I have to guess which position uses the positioning skill vs the vision skill. I honestly figured that if I kept them at "main skill traning" the game would automatically divide the training regimen where they best should go. No, this is not an autopilot. There is an very obvious technical main skill for each position, like blocking for OL, or passing for QB. The "main skill" thing was made to mak it easier for newbees, when they move their players from one position to another. It was not made to replace the planning of your own training regime. Thats cool.. i'm fine with no autopilot but at the same time I have no idea the importance of whatever skill in relation to that position. For example its easy to know "OL = Train them in blocking".. but what to do for a CB? I went back and looked and all my CB are like equal in tackling with my LB. Why would I want that? I want them to be trained to cover WR and react to the football... I'm guessing thats a combination of Positioning/Vision/Footwork/Catching? |
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Buffalo
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posted: 2012-02-24 17:04:29 (ID: 29644) Report Abuse |
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Swordpriest1 wrote:
I went back and looked and all my CB are like equal in tackling with my LB. Why would I want that? I want them to be trained to cover WR and react to the football... I'm guessing thats a combination of Positioning/Vision/Footwork/Catching? I don't understand your problem? Why you don't train you CB in tackling, positioning, vision? I think it could't be wrong. The manual say, that footwork supports blocking and tackling, but there is nothing said about covering receivers. |
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Admin
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posted: 2012-02-24 17:09:49 (ID: 29646) |
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Buffalo wrote:
The manual say, that footwork supports line-blocking and line-tackling, but there is nothing said about covering receivers. Just fixed |
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sharoth
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posted: 2012-02-24 17:11:29 (ID: 29647) Report Abuse |
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Swordpriest1 wrote:
.. but what to do for a CB? I went back and looked and all my CB are like equal in tackling with my LB. Why would I want that? I want them to be trained to cover WR and react to the football... I'm guessing thats a combination of Positioning/Vision/Footwork/Catching? Yeah, if you want a great cover corner you would train these 4 skills, I´m not so sure about footwork in this engine, in reallife every position needs footwork, sure but here if I recall correctly footwork is mainly used with OL and DL players and maybe QB. However you would want to have a great tackler, too, if the WO catches the ball despite the great coverage. And don´t forget about blitzing nickle corners, but a yeah they aren´t part of the engine, so doesn´t matter anyway. |
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Swordpriest1
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posted: 2012-02-24 17:54:07 (ID: 29658) Report Abuse |
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Buffalo wrote:
Swordpriest1 wrote:
I went back and looked and all my CB are like equal in tackling with my LB. Why would I want that? I want them to be trained to cover WR and react to the football... I'm guessing thats a combination of Positioning/Vision/Footwork/Catching? I don't understand your problem? Why you don't train you CB in tackling, positioning, vision? I think it could't be wrong. The manual say, that footwork supports blocking and tackling, but there is nothing said about covering receivers. I'm not sure if its translation or maybe just different verbage used in different regions but footwork isnt relegated to only tackling and blocking. Theres not a position in pads in which footwork isnt vital to your primary skill. It goes against conventional logic for it to be boggled to so specific a juncture. Now I could go and train my CBs in all those things Buffalo.. thats fine. But a CBs main goal is to cover WRs. Why doesnt "train in main skill" reflect that? When people dissect how good a corner is they ask two things. How good is he in relation to the ball? How well does he move his hips and feet. Thats what the original poster's issue was and i'm seconding his thoughts on that. "The manual say, that footwork supports blocking and tackling" .... you guys have no idea how much I'm struggling with this right here. Its not that I dont agree with this statement of the manual but its just not being genuine. If your going to incorporate Footwork = Support of blocking and tackling then there should be no arguements if someone proposed "Lets add a leverage attribute" because thats equally as important if not more so when comes to two players colliding. Nor should there be an argument if someone proposed "Why not add a jumping attribute?" so that it could further support catching and positioning. Many of you would vote against those measures and I'd vote against both of those things too not because it over complicates training (we already have that) but because you could combine those into one package. Footwork by that bold definition above is Positioning. Vision for lack of a better term is Awareness. Lets say Positioning includes Leverage/Jumping/footwork/or any other technique upon colliding with a player [I'm well aware leverage and jumping have nothing to do with one another but neither does arm strength and accuracy and we combine those. I'm doing this for the sake of simplicity]. Vision (awareness) includes the ability for that player to read a play before/after the ball is snapped. Scrap Footwork altogether... every other attribute stays the same. Does that not eliminate people's confusion on how to train there players? I think it becomes more clear. third and last point.. I promise. If training becomes more clear there'd be no need to have the option "Train in Main skill". Unless I knew absolutely nothing about football (and even still theres a manual that outlines what each player position and skill does) I think it'd be apparent what skills effected each position and how. That way a manager wouldnt wake up one day three months later and realize the "main skill" he'd been training his cover corners on was tackling [pointing at myself here  ]Last edited on 2012-02-24 17:56:28 by Swordpriest1 |
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Buffalo
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posted: 2012-02-24 19:20:11 (ID: 29682) Report Abuse |
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I really understand, why you are struggeling with the definition or lack of some skills at RZA.
I think the Admin wanted to find away, between "to complex for somebody with less football knowledge" and "somebody played football or is a fan for many years". The result was to limit the number of skills and unite some skills, which you point out as different skills. One example: A WR normally need for his job Speed, Strenght, Agility, Catching, Jumping, Vision, Footwork, Positioning for run his route, catch the ball in space or in man-coverage, maintain the ball and run if he can brake the tackle. I think for WR Footwork and Positioning is combined and Catching and Jumping is combined, too. The question is, why is footwork for some positions an additional skill and for others not. Really good question which I can't answer. I can live with it as it is. It's definitly not perfect. The thing with the main skill you could discuss a long time. Some positions have 2 mainskills, because of different tasks. The CB must cover a WR or tackle him. The Admin decided that tackling is the main skill. For me I don't use this option for the training. Last edited on 2012-02-24 19:20:37 by Buffalo |
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occam
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posted: 2012-02-24 19:31:56 (ID: 29689) Report Abuse |
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Actually, the thread worked as I had hoped. I reported my observation because I wasn't entirely sure if I was understanding things correctly. In general, I did use the 'train main skill' and got what I asked for. I had thought that the secondary 'non-obvious' skills might improve collaterally but obviously, they don't and, based on the comments, really shouldn't. S'all good!
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panoramix
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posted: 2012-02-24 20:28:49 (ID: 29703) Report Abuse |
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More simple: this is not an "American Football Simulation", but a "Teuto-american Football Simulation"!
Pete did a great, fantastic job whit this nice game and the question remain the same: will we have a real "NFL-like" AF simulation or a game that can be played by the most part of the users? In the first case: - no TM, only players excange payed with draft choices - only few and weak free agents (most over 30) - 7-8 rotation at the draft (and very few really good players, the others must be developed) - More formations and match dynamics - Playbook, playbook, playbook and more, more more playbook. I prefer a real simulation, but I understand the risk of this kind of decision and the reasons for which this game is likely to remain the same we have played so far. |
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KingOfTh3Hil
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posted: 2012-02-24 22:17:16 (ID: 29721) Report Abuse |
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Buffalo wrote:
I really understand, why you are struggeling with the definition or lack of some skills at RZA. I think the Admin wanted to find away, between "to complex for somebody with less football knowledge" and "somebody played football or is a fan for many years". The result was to limit the number of skills and unite some skills, which you point out as different skills. One example: A WR normally need for his job Speed, Strenght, Agility, Catching, Jumping, Vision, Footwork, Positioning for run his route, catch the ball in space or in man-coverage, maintain the ball and run if he can brake the tackle. I think for WR Footwork and Positioning is combined and Catching and Jumping is combined, too. The question is, why is footwork for some positions an additional skill and for others not. Really good question which I can't answer. I can live with it as it is. It's definitly not perfect. The thing with the main skill you could discuss a long time. Some positions have 2 mainskills, because of different tasks. The CB must cover a WR or tackle him. The Admin decided that tackling is the main skill. For me I don't use this option for the training. It would be easier to change the skills totally, adding a bunch of skills like run block, pass block, covering skill, pass catching, route running, ball protection, handle of snap, handle pressure, Pass accuracy and so on, but this would need an overhaul. Then its easy to guess what each position need and its much more easy in creating special players. |
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Buffalo
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posted: 2012-02-25 02:54:18 (ID: 29751) Report Abuse |
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KingOfTh3Hil wrote:
It would be easier to change the skills totally, adding a bunch of skills like run block, pass block, covering skill, pass catching, route running, ball protection, handle of snap, handle pressure, Pass accuracy and so on, but this would need an overhaul. This would be like, writing a new engine. You have to translate actual skills in new skills, write all game calulations new and must balance them out. |
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