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Main / RZA Elite League / RZA Elite Season 48 Search Forum
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jpnwrt
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posted: 2022-08-28 12:10:58 (ID: 100168826) Report Abuse
To give you yet another example (did I say I love them? ).
I don't know what your other sport interests are and if you're old enough to remeber it, but there was a time when in figure skating the final standings were identical to the pre-Olympics ratings. Give or take 1 spot. I think in Sarajevo it was still this way. Why? Because judges were not inclined to punish better skaters for small or even bigger mistakes as much as they were fast to punish those further in the ranking. "This girl is sooo good, she doesn't deserve not to win a medal!", so to speak.
Was it fair? Depends on what you expect the Olympic competition to be.
It's still not perfect, as far as I can tell, but it's way better than it was then.
In my view.
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Dumbarajko
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posted: 2022-08-28 12:33:51 (ID: 100168827) Report Abuse
jpnwrt wrote:

Just look one post above. I even quoted you.
Sure, I didn't refer to the list of numbers you presented. Why should I? I can point you to ten posts in this thread, where you'd find the answer why I don't. Including my own looong post today.
See, my guess is what you'd like the game to be, would be that random numbers should be just the decoration. In other words, you'd like the engine to correct it, if this or that end effect were somewhat less probable.
To better illustrate my point - if the game was soccer and your player was Cristiano Ronaldo, and CR missed a penalty kick, the engine would take it back and kept drawing that random number until the outcome was as it's supposed to be.
Sure, it's possible to have designated this way. Just it's not how THIS game is designated, and Pete has stressed many many times everywhere it is not. He clearly stated how IT IS designated.

You want a different game? Your right. But why do you expect all of us to put pressure on Pete to change it, if we prefer the realism, according to which the ref on the field will not push that poor Ronaldo to keep shooting from 11m, until finally he's got lucky


Thanks mate, but ome penalty kick and like 300 runs are not the same.
One on one situation with GK and 11 on 11 situation in American football are not the same.
If you try to give me situation in football with 11 on 11, or at least 5 on 5 where weaker players beat stronger ones in large number of plays that would make sense to me.

Just like someone said, guy can score 50 points in one game and have highest number of points in single game in season, but if his average is 8.7 points per game you know that it was a one time. Other then that he is just an average player.

But when a poor guy has over 5 yards per carry in whole season, with a poor offensive line that is making blocks for him, that has to be something that is hard to explain.

Or maybe not if both position require just one or two skills to be a great player.

And about that conclussion I am talking about. Whole season is a long time, 16 games are good number of games, one penalty is just drop in the sea.

So your example if not even close to the topic I am talking about.

Pressure on Pete? Never talked about that, just like I never wrote to Madden to change something 😀

He has done great job with this game. I played it day by day for like 4-5 years of my life.

But........
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jpnwrt
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posted: 2022-08-28 13:16:17 (ID: 100168828)  Edits found: 1 Report Abuse
Dumbarajko wrote:
jpnwrt wrote:

Just look one post above. I even quoted you.
Sure, I didn't refer to the list of numbers you presented. Why should I? I can point you to ten posts in this thread, where you'd find the answer why I don't. Including my own looong post today.
See, my guess is what you'd like the game to be, would be that random numbers should be just the decoration. In other words, you'd like the engine to correct it, if this or that end effect were somewhat less probable.
To better illustrate my point - if the game was soccer and your player was Cristiano Ronaldo, and CR missed a penalty kick, the engine would take it back and kept drawing that random number until the outcome was as it's supposed to be.
Sure, it's possible to have designated this way. Just it's not how THIS game is designated, and Pete has stressed many many times everywhere it is not. He clearly stated how IT IS designated.

You want a different game? Your right. But why do you expect all of us to put pressure on Pete to change it, if we prefer the realism, according to which the ref on the field will not push that poor Ronaldo to keep shooting from 11m, until finally he's got lucky


Thanks mate, but ome penalty kick and like 300 runs are not the same.
One on one situation with GK and 11 on 11 situation in American football are not the same.
If you try to give me situation in football with 11 on 11, or at least 5 on 5 where weaker players beat stronger ones in large number of plays that would make sense to me.

Just like someone said, guy can score 50 points in one game and have highest number of points in single game in season, but if his average is 8.7 points per game you know that it was a one time. Other then that he is just an average player.

But when a poor guy has over 5 yards per carry in whole season, with a poor offensive line that is making blocks for him, that has to be something that is hard to explain.

Or maybe not if both position require just one or two skills to be a great player.

And about that conclussion I am talking about. Whole season is a long time, 16 games are good number of games, one penalty is just drop in the sea.

So your example if not even close to the topic I am talking about.

Pressure on Pete? Never talked about that, just like I never wrote to Madden to change something 😀

He has done great job with this game. I played it day by day for like 4-5 years of my life.

But........


I'm not as knowledgeable as you are in RZA. What's worse, I used to be a scientist. Worse than that - theoretical scientist. I like discussing numbers, but only if I have a clean cut situation. A model.
Ronaldo above was not a clean cut situation. I was only trying to point out a different philosophy of what's fair. I did present to you a clean cut model (well, I didn't say heads and tails had identical 50% chance, but I presumed it obvious assumption). You decided not to relate to it, even though there you have a strict answer to your complaints. Because if that Ronaldo had a full season, heck, 100 seasons, and kept missing from penalty spot - would it be a PROOF that something is wrong with probabilities, in your view? I stress - a proof. Not - an indication that something might be fishy about it. If you know anything true about probabilities, you know that it would be no proof. More than that - in long enough time it SHOULD happen.

But ok, lets forget about that side of a problem and discuss the example you want to discuss in detail. So far all I see are rough descriptive terms, nothing that even remotely qualifies to discuss it strictly. "Poor offense"? How do you put that in the calculation? I presume you know how it's calculated. I don't know why you expect others to know that, too, if you want them to discuss it with you. Is there a copy of the code available somewhere? I am not sure I want to know the code. It might destroy all the pleasure of the unknown to me. But I am willing to take a risk. Because I am betting you don't know it, either.
More than that, there is one person who does know. But you don't trust that person when he tells you how he coded it. Hmm...
Oh, so probably you will say - I don't need to know precisely the formula. It's enough that I called for myself this skill an A skill, and that one an R skill.
Really? Lets see. Do you have intuitively a feeling for what would be the difference between the probability of having only heads tossing 16 times the 50/50 coin, and the probability of the same if that coin is modified just to 49/51? I'll spare you the calculation. The latter would have only 75% probability of the former. 1.5 E-5 vs about 1.1 E-5
75%. Modifying only 1 attribute by 2%. So no, "good defensive line" vs "41 pass" won't do. It may be enough to claim you were unlucky (something several ppl in this thread had admitted). Not enough to discuss possible integral flaws in the game.

Last edited on 2022-08-28 13:18:31 by jpnwrt

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dumpling
posted: 2022-08-28 13:47:16 (ID: 100168829)  Edits found: 1 Report Abuse
In an effort to change the (well worn) topic of this forum can we talk about the upcoming playoffs and who we think will win?

Norfolk Heroes vs. Stone Mountain Hawks 2
Also met in the wildcard POs in S46 with the Hawks winning 41:21

San Diego Blitz vs. Department for Love and Peace
Blitz had won 7 in a row before Petes recent famous victory

Space Kraken vs. KMN Mandalorians
Kraken won the most recent league meeting 26:16

Sydney Rising Stars vs. ChosenOnes
ChosenOnes won the most recent league meeting 36:24

Last edited on 2022-08-28 13:54:50 by dumpling

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pete
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posted: 2022-08-28 14:49:42 (ID: 100168832) Report Abuse
Major Havoc wrote:Now I've won 7 games in Elite and next time, I'll see if I can win 8.


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pete
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posted: 2022-08-28 14:55:23 (ID: 100168833) Report Abuse
dumpling wrote:
San Diego Blitz vs. Department for Love and Peace
Blitz had won 7 in a row before Petes recent famous victory


Thanks for discouragement

Let the random engine win Steves 7 in a row before was part of the masterplan.
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Rufio13
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posted: 2022-08-28 16:00:41 (ID: 100168835) Report Abuse
Major Havoc wrote:

Rufio, I find your comments here both sad and hilarious at the same time.

I know I'm still fairly new to the game and my team made it to Elite before it was as good as the other teams here, but my goal was still the same this season...to win as many games as possible, even if that meant only two, like you predicted. I manage my team the same way as when I played football, and that is to win. I still had my match of the year game to use and to me, that meant the possibility of 7 wins in Elite instead of 6.

Thankfully, I never had a coach or a teammate that gave up on us, or had us quit, or not play as hard if we couldn't make the playoffs. Even as a now former athlete, and former member of the military, I find that kind of thinking shameful, pathetic and dishonorable.

It was not my responsibility to make sure our pachyderm friend stayed in Elite nor was it because of my decisions that he became the second manager this season after Guns & Roses to essentially pout and take their ball and go home after losing to my team. If Dumba had say...beaten Free Agent Mascots, or won one of his games against Pete, this last game wouldn't have mattered. I beat Pete once this year and last year and he didn't complain and quit.

I've read many of Dumba's posts and he did not seem happy to me, I don't know. There are many things that aren't realistic or don't make sense to me, but we all have to deal with the same things together. (You can change an O-lineman to a WR no problem, a short skinny DB can be as strong as or fast as a huge NT, a blitzing LB somehow is not allowed to make a tackle on a runner, a player on opposite side of the field can make a tackle, etc) We all deal with the same.

As Steve said, I "Aim high", like the Air Force, and try to win every time my team plays. I didn't "promote self harm", I promoted self-respect and if that means I drop a few draft spots, so be it. Now I've won 7 games in Elite and next time, I'll see if I can win 8. To me, the only thing non-sensical or decision that is disappointing is your rollover and die philosophy and expectation that others should do the same. Just glad you were never on one of my teams.



That's cool man. No need to get chippy. I act more like a gm with a long term plan to win. Sometimes the best move is to lose. You want to utilize a different plan, go for it.

As for roll over and die. There's plenty of times where teams give up a game before it starts because it's the correct long term tactical move. I don't know your roster, but it wasn't logical to exhaust your team for no gain (self harm) and when you still are alive in the CoC and knock yourself down the draft list. It seems your priorities are different. Sorry you took it as insulting, it wasn't, but it wasn't the best long term decision.
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Solana_Steve
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posted: 2022-08-28 16:39:11 (ID: 100168836) Report Abuse
Rufio13 wrote:
Major Havoc wrote:

Rufio, I find your comments here both sad and hilarious at the same time.

I know I'm still fairly new to the game and my team made it to Elite before it was as good as the other teams here, but my goal was still the same this season...to win as many games as possible, even if that meant only two, like you predicted. I manage my team the same way as when I played football, and that is to win. I still had my match of the year game to use and to me, that meant the possibility of 7 wins in Elite instead of 6.

Thankfully, I never had a coach or a teammate that gave up on us, or had us quit, or not play as hard if we couldn't make the playoffs. Even as a now former athlete, and former member of the military, I find that kind of thinking shameful, pathetic and dishonorable.

It was not my responsibility to make sure our pachyderm friend stayed in Elite nor was it because of my decisions that he became the second manager this season after Guns & Roses to essentially pout and take their ball and go home after losing to my team. If Dumba had say...beaten Free Agent Mascots, or won one of his games against Pete, this last game wouldn't have mattered. I beat Pete once this year and last year and he didn't complain and quit.

I've read many of Dumba's posts and he did not seem happy to me, I don't know. There are many things that aren't realistic or don't make sense to me, but we all have to deal with the same things together. (You can change an O-lineman to a WR no problem, a short skinny DB can be as strong as or fast as a huge NT, a blitzing LB somehow is not allowed to make a tackle on a runner, a player on opposite side of the field can make a tackle, etc) We all deal with the same.

As Steve said, I "Aim high", like the Air Force, and try to win every time my team plays. I didn't "promote self harm", I promoted self-respect and if that means I drop a few draft spots, so be it. Now I've won 7 games in Elite and next time, I'll see if I can win 8. To me, the only thing non-sensical or decision that is disappointing is your rollover and die philosophy and expectation that others should do the same. Just glad you were never on one of my teams.



That's cool man. No need to get chippy. I act more like a gm with a long term plan to win. Sometimes the best move is to lose. You want to utilize a different plan, go for it.

As for roll over and die. There's plenty of times where teams give up a game before it starts because it's the correct long term tactical move. I don't know your roster, but it wasn't logical to exhaust your team for no gain (self harm) and when you still are alive in the CoC and knock yourself down the draft list. It seems your priorities are different. Sorry you took it as insulting, it wasn't, but it wasn't the best long term decision.


Personally, I've always tried to win every game. That's been part of my success. I know a bunch of people have schemes to demote and make money or lose to get a draft pick or whatever or tanking. I've really not seen those strategies be successful. You're way better trying to win every game in my opinion - - by putting your best roster & best PB forward.

MOTY in a league game doesn't really exhaust your team if you do it right. Look at Air Force already back at 99% Physical Condition. It costs you some training with your starters - - but for me (and many others), a lot of my starters I'm not training anymore because of salary concerns.

Should you MOTY a game like that - - I think it's more a matter of mindset. It think the actual advantages and disadvantages are pretty slight.


Steve
SD Blitz

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Dumbarajko
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posted: 2022-08-28 16:55:30 (ID: 100168838) Report Abuse
jpnwrt wrote:
I'm not as knowledgeable as you are in RZA.


Mate, this sentence is really questionable

All you should done is write "How the hell Greece won European championship in football in 2004. with odds 150-1?"

And they will probably never win anything again. That is a proof to me that miracle can happen.

Just like 12-4 Pete Elite season

Slam dunk, end of story.
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Dumbarajko
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posted: 2022-08-28 17:06:54 (ID: 100168839)  Edits found: 2 Report Abuse
Bye guys.

I will be on auto pilot for some time. As i said, right now I am not quiting, but also I am not rebuilding, just resting.

If the love for the game hits me again maybe I will start playing seriously again.

Sorry for lots of posts but maybe I just wanted to explain my decision which was hard to make
In the end who cares about one old bold Serbian fellow decision regarding a game

Pete,

Thanks for a great time I had with your game. For last 4-5 years of my life if I was home and having nothing serious to do I always watched my games live. Last time I did that was 10 years ago with one basketball manager online game.
And guess what, I started playing that game last year all over again after pause of 10 years.
So anything can happen with RZA and me, just keep the game running

Cheers mate, for you there are special greetings.

Other, little bit smaller special greetings goes to all of guys that made this game more interesting with their personal messages. They know who they are.

I hope that all of you liked my enthusiasm for this game, my game predictions last season, my help in rookie forum and specially my writings with Drogon (I just had to mention that )

Wish you all well.

Regards,
Milan

Last edited on 2022-08-28 17:17:18 by Dumbarajko

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