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| Main / Rookie Area / Primary skills per position Search Forum | |
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| Poster | Message |
| posted: 2022-08-21 09:54:46 (ID: 100168581) Report Abuse | |
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In Jacks guide there are A, B and C skills for each position.
After doing some scouting I am wondering about is that guide correct. First lets talk about primary (A skills) based on conclusions after my scouting job: TEs don't need POS RBs don't need STR (at some point) and POS FBs don't need POS OLs don't need POS DLs don't need STR (at some point) and VIS Other A skills mentioned in his guide just need to be around 40 to have an Elite team. Skills mentioned above can be at 10, there is no problem with that. All players do not need none of B skills. Forget about them. LBs and CBs really do not need to know how to make a positioning. For them it is not a B skills it is like a Q skill. After that conclusion it seems that C skills really don't exists. It comes down that all positions need only two high trained skills, plus agility as much as it can get plus either strength or speed to max depending on position. Simple as that. When those 3 skills match opponent skills for position that specific player is playing against you are on the right track. Other A skills from the guide can be at like 11 or 15 and you should forget about B skills. And it is better to have a WR with 47 catch and 47 positioning vs WR that has 45 in catch, positioning, vision and carrying. Simple as that. |
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| posted: 2022-08-21 11:28:37 (ID: 100168584) Report Abuse | |
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Likely you are right, but on the other hand Peter said this only a few days ago: Skills of a defender.
This can be Peters mumbling to avoid telling what's really needed, or it means skills DO matter, but the circumstances they come into play are so rare you can not tell when they made the differance. For the record, the list of skills I did provide are mainly based on the training they support. Now why should they support the skill, if the skills means nothing for them? I could be Peter did decide to do it, just to have the skills trained also on positions outside the say regular ones, but maybe the have an impact. I don't know. |
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pderekdactyl
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posted: 2022-08-21 16:07:27 (ID: 100168585) Report Abuse |
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I disagree.
In order to possibly win any one game, sure, just A skill training can win you any single game. There's enough randomness in a single game to compensate for a lack of comprehensive training. But in order to be consistent and win an elite championship or supercup, you're going to either need a long string of luck or a really long string of luck if you're training just A skills. You're also going to ruin your payroll or have a lot of turnover in your roster making it hard to always get the physical and non skill stuff in the players you want. Even if a 47/47 skill guy is potentially just as good as a 45/45/45/45 guy, I'll take the cheaper bucket of 45s. |
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| posted: 2022-08-21 17:19:04 (ID: 100168586) Report Abuse | |
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Dumbarajko wrote:
TEs don't need POS RBs don't need STR (at some point) and POS FBs don't need POS OLs don't need POS DLs don't need STR (at some point) and VIS I disagree, completely. |
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| posted: 2022-08-21 18:13:07 (ID: 100168588) Report Abuse | |
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pete wrote:
I disagree, completely. Let's take a look at two Elite teams with almost similar score after 14 league games and block success rate after more or almost 1.000 snaps (I hope that all of you will agree that those numbers are good enough to make comparison): All players have BLO, FOOT, AGI > 40, STR second team all at 50, first has one at 47.5, one at 45.8, one at 45 and two at 50), TEAMWORK all except one in first team is above 40. First team has all five linemen with no POS and no VIS. Their success block rate is: 35.9%, 33.6%, 33.5%, 32.3%, 29.5% Second team has all five linemen with POS>40 and VIS>40. Their success block rate is: 38.1%, 36.3%, 36.1%, 35.8%, 27.6% And they played almost similar opponents in those 14 games. So POS and VIS which doesn't exists in team one and are above 40 in team two give just like 10% more success blocks for team two. Primary skill? Not for me. Secondary skill? Not for me. E skill? Ok, I can take that. And no, I am not talking about my team. So yes primary skills for OL are BLOCK and FOOT, but POS is not for sure. |
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| posted: 2022-08-21 19:00:09 (ID: 100168589) Report Abuse | |
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pderekdactyl wrote:
I disagree. In order to possibly win any one game, sure, just A skill training can win you any single game. There's enough randomness in a single game to compensate for a lack of comprehensive training. But in order to be consistent and win an elite championship or supercup, you're going to either need a long string of luck or a really long string of luck if you're training just A skills. You're also going to ruin your payroll or have a lot of turnover in your roster making it hard to always get the physical and non skill stuff in the players you want. Even if a 47/47 skill guy is potentially just as good as a 45/45/45/45 guy, I'll take the cheaper bucket of 45s. Absolutely agree! pretty much sums up my aproach with my former team, when I had a pretty good run |
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| posted: 2022-08-21 19:02:14 (ID: 100168590) Report Abuse | |
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Dumbarajko wrote:
pete wrote:
I disagree, completely. Let's take a look at two Elite teams with almost similar score after 14 league games and block success rate after more or almost 1.000 snaps (I hope that all of you will agree that those numbers are good enough to make comparison): All players have BLO, FOOT, AGI > 40, STR second team all at 50, first has one at 47.5, one at 45.8, one at 45 and two at 50), TEAMWORK all except one in first team is above 40. First team has all five linemen with no POS and no VIS. Their success block rate is: 35.9%, 33.6%, 33.5%, 32.3%, 29.5% Second team has all five linemen with POS>40 and VIS>40. Their success block rate is: 38.1%, 36.3%, 36.1%, 35.8%, 27.6% And they played almost similar opponents in those 14 games. So POS and VIS which doesn't exists in team one and are above 40 in team two give just like 10% more success blocks for team two. Primary skill? Not for me. Secondary skill? Not for me. E skill? Ok, I can take that. And no, I am not talking about my team. So yes primary skills for OL are BLOCK and FOOT, but POS is not for sure. when you compare blocking stats, you have to look at the run/pass ratio not just on the talent. makes a huge difference |
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| posted: 2022-08-21 19:11:48 (ID: 100168591) Report Abuse | |
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HH_KMN wrote:
when you compare blocking stats, you have to look at the run/pass ratio not just on the talent. makes a huge difference First team has 384 rushes, second has 383 in those 14 games. First one has 728 pass attempts, second has 749. So for the first team pass/run ratio is 65.5% vs 34.5%, for the second ratio is 66.1% vs 33.9%. Pretty much the same, like 1% difference. Is there something else that I might look for? |
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| posted: 2022-08-21 19:23:08 (ID: 100168594) Report Abuse | |
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Dumbarajko wrote:
pete wrote:
I disagree, completely. (lots of arguing) This was not meant to be a discussion from my side. You made just wrong assumption on the post I answered with "I disagree". I should have written "you are wrong" to make it more clear. I know what I am talking about it, since I implemented those skills in the engine. Sorry, if my answer was confusing. |
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| posted: 2022-08-21 19:35:21 (ID: 100168596) Report Abuse | |
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pete wrote:
This was not meant to be a discussion from my side. You made just wrong assumption on the post I answered with "I disagree". I should have written "you are wrong" to make it more clear. I know what I am talking about it, since I implemented those skills in the engine. Sorry, if my answer was confusing. I have taken stats for quite a lot of games with quite a lot of snaps, two teams with almost same score, playing against almost same teams, pass/run ratio is almost the same, so those stats must mean something. And I don't say that POS doesn't make difference but for sure is not an A skill difference. As I wrote in Elite forum you can play this game in complex way developing your players in 3-4 "primary" skills, but also you can develop them in just 2 skills and difference is something that you can forget about it. And I like complex way, but I don't like if there is shortcut that "kills" way I like. |
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