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| Main / The Lounge - Smokers welcome / Energy in Europe... Search Forum | |
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| posted: 2022-08-27 17:59:46 (ID: 100168771) Report Abuse | |
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So I was just curious, because the news in the States make thing sound kind of dire about the natural gas situation in central and eastern Europe. So what's kind of the expectation this winter - - do people think it's going to a a minor inconvenience with higher prices or more like a catastrophe with people freezing?
Thanks, Steve SD Blitz |
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| posted: 2022-08-27 18:04:59 (ID: 100168772) Report Abuse | |
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In Germny it will be something in between. The poorer people won't be able to pay higher prices, but the govt is right now discussing how to solve this. At the same time, people with average or above average income will be able to get over it without big hassle. At least this is the expectation for the moment
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| posted: 2022-08-27 19:01:24 (ID: 100168775) Report Abuse | |
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In Poland it depends who's talking - the government, or the opposition. And that split is more or less over the entire population because for some time now our society is very strongly polarized. Plus few people (if any) know how serious it really is. The facts presented by both sides have rather insignificant common part
 so it's not easy to make any serious guess how bad or good it really is.
Luckily our winters are not what they used to be back XXXty years ago :-) |
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| posted: 2022-08-28 00:50:47 (ID: 100168798) Edits found: 1 Report Abuse | |
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I didn't mean this to be political - - I think we're all aware of who is responsible for the Ukraine war.
But don't people in some of the European countries question why their governments allowed things to become so dependent on energy from the them? Thanks, Steve SD Blitz Last edited on 2022-08-28 01:02:24 by Solana_Steve |
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| posted: 2022-08-28 04:05:24 (ID: 100168802) Edits found: 1 Report Abuse | |
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Mine started to diversify long before the war. But I think the reasons of dependence is obvious - Russian fuels were cheaper. And in a short run - safe to get. That's the problem especially (though not exclusively) with democracy, not only in the countries relatively new to the idea. The ruler knows from the start, that his rules are short term. So it is tempting to care more about what's now, than what the effects _might_ be in future.
If there was a sudden conflict with, say, China, the effect would be just as devastating for the economy in young eastern Europe democracies, as it would be for "old", western ones - we all depend on cheaper chinese work (not getting into - why it can be so cheap, cause everone knows why, so why start a quarrel). I'm not saying there aren't brighter effects of democracy, too.
EDIT: To give you an example. Traffic in the center of Poland's cap was terrible for years, but for years no city mayor had the guts to start the renovation of roads, because mayors come from major political parties and mayors' parties were too afraid they'd lose the next elections in the most important city. They were right to be afraid. When finally one mayor decided the problem can't wait any longer - the opposing party immediately started propaganda on the topic of horrors of everyday life the ruling party caused for the citizens by starting the work. Idiotic? Sure. Everyone could only gain from the temporary discomfort of re-routing, noise, etc. But average voter cares more about what he has to face on his way to work today, than what he will face a year later. Last edited on 2022-08-28 04:33:50 by jpnwrt |
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| posted: 2022-08-28 08:45:36 (ID: 100168811) Report Abuse | |
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Pete removed a useless Meme, please stay on the non-propaganda side of the discussion.
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| posted: 2022-08-28 08:48:09 (ID: 100168812) Edits found: 1 Report Abuse | |
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Solana_Steve wrote:
But don't people in some of the European countries question why their governments allowed things to become so dependent on energy from the them? Of course they do. In Germany there is a "funny" aspect of this: all major political parties created more tight bindings to russian oil and gas in the last decades. And now they point to each other claiming "because of you we are more tight to russian energy". Last edited on 2022-08-28 14:45:46 by pete |
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| posted: 2022-08-28 10:19:38 (ID: 100168817) Report Abuse | |
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| posted: 2022-08-28 13:51:14 (ID: 100168830) Report Abuse | |
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And worse did also in different coolitions all parties limit the creation or extention of green energy buildings. And now the do try to substitute any energy creation technolgy for gas, even the nuclear option, which was agreed by all parties to be stopped end of the year.
Bottom line is as already described, Russian gas was cheap and while it was a pity the guy in the Kreml did some stuff which was not nice, the gas was cheap and with all the money we shipped to him we thought to keep him in check, like 'he will not do something stupid, since he needs and liks the money'. And then he did something stupid and the whole card house did collapse. My 2 cents are, it will calm down, after a while and the new delivery cycles will become established. But until then it will be tough. |
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| posted: 2022-08-28 14:47:27 (ID: 100168831) Report Abuse | |
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jack6 wrote:And then he did something stupid and the whole card house did collapse. ... which was in 2014 btw, and still 3 govts managed to ignore the Crimea case |
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