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Main / Discussions / Elite, Squaring the Circle. Search Forum
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Quimriera
Girona Dragons 1714

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posted: 2024-04-03 15:07:25 (ID: 100182681) Report Abuse
Yes, we know and it's not the first (nor the last) time. But seeing that an Elite team with 12-4 can go down a category and others with 7-9 are going to stay makes me think that this NFL-style League system is trying to square the circle.
A NFL League style (closed) mixed with a European League style (with promotions and relegations).
Reasonable alternatives?
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pete
H2TAGIT4Q

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posted: 2024-04-03 15:52:29 (ID: 100182682) Report Abuse
The topic is as old as RZA, and was discussed many times. One idea was to create closed leagues. Problem solved. Imagine we would have done this ...
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ptdoc2017
Sunrise City Prairie Dogs

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posted: 2024-04-03 17:20:51 (ID: 100182684) Report Abuse
I've been sent back down twice with a really good record (12-4 and 11-5). I think with the ability to switch regions, teams have options to scout out a "weaker" Elite division if they want
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Olband
Missouri Misery

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posted: 2024-04-03 21:03:47 (ID: 100182693) Report Abuse
I agree that allowing movement between leagues will allow for at least the possibility of 'evening' the playing field. There's been a little movement already, though I don't know that many managers are keen to move around a lot.

The following suggestion is really for spurring conversation more than anything. I don't know that I think a change is needed, but for kicks:
As a possibility, there could be the option of a single challenge-relegation game. The manager with the best record that's scheduled to be relegated after the regular season is finished could choose to challenge a team that is scheduled to stay in Elite despite having a losing record. If successful, the challenger would be required to switch to the loser's division, taking their place. (This could be expanded to allow more than one challenge if there are multiple teams with losing records staying in Elite, but for ease, I was limiting it to one.)
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G4ngsta
Gangsta

Scotland

Joined: 2023-05-26/S51
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posted: 2024-04-03 21:37:25 (ID: 100182694) Report Abuse
in Scotland - the football { soccer} league have a top team go up and 2nd 3rd 4th 5th best play off, with winner to play the team coming down from top league - RZA Elite 2 teams drop 1 up leave one place for bottom place 2nd team Elite and play off to winner of 2nd/3rd/4th/5th team that goes up. that would take in 4 divisions from 2nd League in a final place v Elite team 2.. any help? { so 2nd place in Fire/Claymore/Dragon/Monarch. } play off
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BoaTek
Niceville Norsemen

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posted: 2024-04-04 02:13:58 (ID: 100182695) Report Abuse
Personally, I love the current system. I think it promotes league pride, divisional rivalries and gives every team a fair shot at getting to play in Elite, even if for only one season. If you can dominate your D1 league, chances are good you never relegate from Elite, even when the D1 league itself is weak. The dominating part is on us to achieve.

Also, I see a lot about switching leagues to make the path easier to Elite. In your current D1 league, if you are making the playoffs consistantly, the level of competition you are playing now requires that you to pay attention to a few games a season. Being in Elite requires that you pay attention to every game all season. What you are essentially doing by transferring is looking for an easier path into a total meat grinder set on ultra-high. While your roster costs rise, your income plummets in Elite when all you do is lose. Just my two cents on switching leagues to get into Elite faster. Enjoy D1 while you are there and make some friends. Maybe an enemy or two, that's always entertaining. Just be careful what you wish for is all I am saying.

Back to your regular scheduled program...
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jack6
Leverkusen Leopards

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posted: 2024-04-04 06:58:48 (ID: 100182699) Report Abuse
This topic involves many areas, which can't be fixed easily, if ever.

a) Elite was created after several seasons to break the dominance of certain teams in their region, where they often, if not very often, did win the bowl.
Those dominant teams were send to Elite to have a stronger competition and to give other teams a chance to win inside the regions.
It was also clear that teams should not switch regions.
But how do you link 8 regions with not too much effort? Well, with a 32 team, 8 division structure the answer was quite clear.
And you also need to queeze the competion into the already established gameday structures.
Making it different would mean a lot of change and remember that this game is basically a hobby project of Pete, so I think it is understandable the effort creating the system was kept on a minimum.

b) The schedule system is quite simple and did never reflect the NFL system in total (at that time) in total. The result is that some divisions do play other divisions all the time and that results in some off settings. When only one of the division is strong and the other not, the strong teams get a lot of extra wins, while the other gets extra losses. Since relegation is done inside the division, sometimes winning teams have to relegate.
One small feature of the NFL scheduling system is totally missing, the 2 games against teams with similar finishing a season before. That makes the schedule in the NFL for a winning team likely toucher, a losing teams gets a weaker schedule, a bit and only likely, since the teams might develop.
But in RZA that's not happening, as far as I know the 2 games are random or somehow hardcoded, but never based on strength (since that is tough to judge with so many changes from season to season).
Bottom line is, the scheduling has an influence on the win total in each region and sometimes does make teams looks stronger or weaker, than they would be with a different schedule.

c) To keep all leagues running you need a concept for BOT teams, so a close league wouldn't make sense, otherwise Elite would have a lot of BOT teams by now. 1st Elite season was in season 14, of those teams only 3 teams still exist, Mascots, Dragons and Blitz. So you NEED relegation. As mention, switching regions was very long not allowed and wanted and only today OK when initiated by the manager. I think that's good, but limits any concepts for relegation. There were a lot of suggestions on different relegation rules, but none did stick, part because of the limited options, part because Pete likes it as it is.

So long post (sorry) with only one intention, if you want a change your suggestions needs to fulfil all requirements. Just a small change will not help much, from my point of view.

As I remember, Peter thinks about a better scheduling, but I don't know the status. That would be a start.
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pete
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posted: 2024-04-04 08:22:44 (ID: 100182701) Report Abuse
jack6 wrote:
As I remember, Peter thinks about a better scheduling, but I don't know the status. That would be a start.



I received some good ideas and a masterplan from my partner in crime. We discussed the options over the last few months, and he came up with the implementation blueprint. Right now I am implementing this new scheduling routine into a playground. As soon as this is available you guys can run the new scheduler and check the outcome. It contains logic for seasonal switching divisions to play against, and reflects the NFLs scheduling plan of that time quite a bit.
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pete
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posted: 2024-04-04 08:24:12 (ID: 100182702) Report Abuse
Oh, and originally the plan was to implement it over Easter weekend, but the weather was so nice and my grandson around, so I had to change my priorities
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jack6
Leverkusen Leopards

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posted: 2024-04-04 08:34:38 (ID: 100182703) Report Abuse
pete wrote:
Oh, and originally the plan was to implement it over Easter weekend, but the weather was so nice and my grandson around, so I had to change my priorities

That's the right priority.
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