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| Main / Discussions / Defense formation observation Search Forum | |
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CCILL
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posted: 2012-02-22 04:52:23 (ID: 28990) Report Abuse |
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Something I noticed [while trying to figure out and make my playbook] in the 3-3-5 and 3-3-4 defensive lineups is that the DE are in the lineup and not the DT’s. This would place the usually smaller [weight] and strength DE playing against the usually biggest and strongest players on the offensive line the OT’s. Is there a reason it is done this way here?
The other thing I noticed is that there are no height, weight and strong hand [left or right handed] listed on the players. All three of those play a major part in where you would play a player in real life. An example would be having a left-handed QB, for the most part your team would tend to design plays with the left side being the strongest [70’s Oakland Raiders, Ken Stabler] instead of the normal right side being the strongest. [These is a reason why there are not many left handed QB’s, coaches don’t like to operate outside the norm very far, LOL] |
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scottishbronco
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posted: 2012-02-22 09:35:15 (ID: 29000) Report Abuse |
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From what i can see on the formations page in the manual, the 3 up front will be 2 DE and 1 NT, i think its just pictured as the ends in the usual left and right linemen spots rather than on the END as their name suggests.
As for the strong/weak side stuff, i suggested this in beta and the suggestion was noted for a future game engine u p d a t e i think. It adds more realism to the game if we can code it properly. Other american football sims tend to stick with the left side blind side theory. Every QB throws right handed. |
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andrew2scott2
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posted: 2012-02-22 10:02:19 (ID: 29009) Report Abuse |
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I agree but going back to the 3-4 thing in real life a DE in the 3-4 would be line up on or inside of the OT never on the outside that the OLB area. And the DE are little bit bigger in the 3-4 because of the double team that they face.
So there is no issue with that any ways |
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Buffalo
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posted: 2012-02-22 10:20:18 (ID: 29019) Report Abuse |
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CCILL wrote:
Something I noticed [while trying to figure out and make my playbook] in the 3-3-5 and 3-3-4 defensive lineups is that the DE are in the lineup and not the DT’s. This would place the usually smaller [weight] and strength DE playing against the usually biggest and strongest players on the offensive line the OT’s. Is there a reason it is done this way here? I think the most common way in football are 2 DE and not 2 DT. Some teams play with 1 DE, 1 NT and 1 DT. The question is, who block which DL. I think that OT allways block DE and OG allways block DT. If a OLB blitz, the TE or FB block. CCILL wrote:
The other thing I noticed is that there are no height, weight and strong hand [left or right handed] listed on the players. All three of those play a major part in where you would play a player in real life. An example would be having a left-handed QB, for the most part your team would tend to design plays with the left side being the strongest [70’s Oakland Raiders, Ken Stabler] instead of the normal right side being the strongest. [These is a reason why there are not many left handed QB’s, coaches don’t like to operate outside the norm very far, LOL] Please keep in mind, that managers try to play this game and know not everything about American Football. Implementing left- or right-handed QB is only a small and unimportant detail, which make thinks more difficult. You have to prepare your offense and defense in different way, which can not handle the most of our managers. It is a nice idea, but the game should be simple in some parts. |
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CCILL
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posted: 2012-02-22 12:40:51 (ID: 29037) Report Abuse |
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Thanks for the feedback, I’m new to the game and just saw these things setting up the playbook. I figured it was due to being too many variables in the game engine. No big deal really. Here is something I found that explains the 3-4 better then I could, I found it at www.calsci.com has a lot of good information/explanation on American football for anyone having questions. I found it to be pretty informative.
*Please note this is just two paragraphs out of a lengthy report that also has diagrams to help explain it. One reaction to this has been to develop the 3-4 defense. In this defense, you need one really large nose tackle. This NT has to be a real monster of a guy, 350 pounds or so, because his job is to take on the center and one of the guards simultaneously on every single play. Then you get two more defensive tackles at around 300 pounds each, and play them up against the offensive tackles. All three of the defensive tackles have what is called two-gap responsibility. They are expected to hit the offensive linemen head on, and watch the play to make sure the running back doesn't come through on either side of them. Also, they're expected to hold their block so that the offensive linemen can't get out and block a linebacker. In the 3-4, you have four linebackers. Two of these guys are inside linebackers, and are expected to weigh roughly 240 pounds and be quite athletic. You also have two outside linebackers. These guys are sometimes called "tweeners," as they are in between the normal size of defensive ends and linebackers. These guys should weigh perhaps 255-265 pounds and also be quite athletic. Because these are linebackers, they tend to be faster than the heavier defensive ends. Their presence makes it much more difficult for the quarterback to roll out, as he will be rolling out directly into the path of one of these linebackers. |
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Buffalo
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posted: 2012-02-22 12:57:55 (ID: 29041) Report Abuse |
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CCILL wrote:
Here is something I found that explains the 3-4 better then I could, I found it at www.calsci.com has a lot of good information/explanation on American football for anyone having questions. I found it to be pretty informative. http://football.calsci.com/DefensiveLine3.html is the right link. I like the 3-4-4 formation very much, because I have more good LB than DT. My hughe problem is, that I need a outstanding NT, because my actual guys miss to much tackles. |
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panoramix
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posted: 2012-02-22 13:19:50 (ID: 29043) Report Abuse |
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Buffalo wrote:I like the 3-4-4 formation very much, because I have more good LB than DT. My hughe problem is, that I need a outstanding NT, because my actual guys miss to much tackles.
In real football the 3-4 and the 4-3 are the most used formations, the 5-3 is really rare. On RZA 5 DLs are the only weapon against runs. This is a thing to change asap... |
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Buffalo
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posted: 2012-02-22 13:27:01 (ID: 29044) Report Abuse |
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panoramix wrote:
Buffalo wrote:I like the 3-4-4 formation very much, because I have more good LB than DT. My hughe problem is, that I need a outstanding NT, because my actual guys miss to much tackles.
In real football the 3-4 and the 4-3 are the most used formations, the 5-3 is really rare. On RZA 5 DLs are the only weapon against runs. This is a thing to change asap... In real football the defense of a team is based on a 3-4 OR 4-3. In RZA 5-3 is not the only weapon against run. If you have not 5 strong DL you will have real problems with this formation. I beat some really good with a 3-4 Defense. You are right, that the teams in the bowls mostly win with a 5-3 defense. I think they put their best defenders at the DL. |
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panoramix
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posted: 2012-02-22 13:33:59 (ID: 29046) Report Abuse |
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Buffalo wrote:In real football the defense of a team is based on a 3-4 OR 4-3.
In RZA 5-3 is not the only weapon against run. If you have not 5 strong DL you will have real problems with this formation. I beat some really good with a 3-4 Defense. You are right, that the teams in the bowls mostly win with a 5-3 defense. I think they put their best defenders at the DL. If you look at your matches against good teams: - I-formation 5-3-3 5 / 13 / 2.6 - I-formation 3-4-4 11 / 50 / 4.5 - Pro set 5-3-3 5 / 7 / 1.4 - Pro set 3-4-4 6 / 44 / 7.3 - Pro set 5-3-3 4 / 20 / 5 - Pro set 3-4-4 11 / 74 / 6.7 IMHO the 3-4 is not so good against runs... |
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Buffalo
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posted: 2012-02-22 13:50:20 (ID: 29049) Report Abuse |
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panoramix wrote:
If you look at your matches against good teams: - I-formation 5-3-3 5 / 13 / 2.6 - I-formation 3-4-4 11 / 50 / 4.5 - Pro set 5-3-3 5 / 7 / 1.4 - Pro set 3-4-4 6 / 44 / 7.3 - Pro set 5-3-3 4 / 20 / 5 - Pro set 3-4-4 11 / 74 / 6.7 IMHO the 3-4 is not so good against runs... You can't pick only one game. My experience with 5-3-3 was, that this formation is more "all-or-nothing". That mean, you stop the opponent 2 times short and get than a big run for 10-15 yards, which result in a new first down. Against my 3-4-4 the opponent has less big runs and more small steps, but 3x3 yards are not enough for a new first down. So the average yards are not so important like the third down conversions of your opponent. Some examples: Heidelberg Hippoes 2 of 11 Kharkiv Atlantes 2 of 12 New York Bulldogs 7 of 16 ... The success of all defense formations depends on the offense of your opponent. I say not, that 3-4 is allways the best, because I have still no important trophy, but i say also not that 5-3-3 is the only way. |
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