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| Main / American Football in real life / Calling all tactical / play calling nerds! Search Forum | |
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Amhaja
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posted: 2020-11-20 23:58:07 (ID: 100154632) Report Abuse |
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After 5 years of following the sport, reading books on it, playing these games and watching 6 hours every weekend, Im after some advice re real life NFL tactics.
I know the basics eg I understand that on 3rd and 1 most offenses will line up to run a line plunge type play, or even qb sneak etc and in reverse the defense will most likely counter a run play. Likewise, when 3rd and 14 with minutes left and down by touchdown, the offense likely to pass towards flank and get the ball out of play to stop the clock; and the defense will counter this. I understand offenses go with their strengths mostly? Hence bills, cardinals and Seahawks have qb run cos their qb is good at that. Saints play lots of short passes cos Brees is highly accurate at moving the chains. And my eagles Wentz will throw ints because he's good at that!! I also understand a lot of play calling is situational: qb not on form, so they run more. Switch up fast rb plays with north and south running plays; defense main cb injured = play to the reserve cb position etc. As I write this im thinking that im answering my initial queries, but I guess id like to know from people who have played or followed for many years, what the decision making is: 1 - what % of the offense play call is based on their strength and what on weakness of defense? Or combination 50/50? 2 - how on earth do offense coordinators choose which of the 100 passing plays to use? Do they simply pick a few and practice them each week? 3 - I try to follow what changes the defense make when they all lineup but within 10 seconds they've snapped and ive missed what actually happened. In an ideal world id love to have someone who really knows their stuff commenting on the decision making: "defense have spotted x so they've done y, but notice the offense have countered this by x, and will now probably do z".... bit like Tony romo sometimes does helpfully. Ive followed some of the NFL game pass sessions with Brian balldinger and find them useful, but again id prefer to follow a whole game with each and every call named and explained. Anyone know where I can find something like this? I'd tried reading about formations and tactics which look fine in books, but then thre players never quite line up in those exact positions so pre snap im still wondering "is that an lb moving up or a safety?", "is that cover 2, cos it's nearly but not quite what I read". Id pay handsomely for somewhere that shows each play call by offense (including formation, play type (slant etc), and who's who (I can't read their numbers so again can't distinguish between a te or a wr who's playing slot!). I love watching football for its thrill, excitement and amazing plays, but I'd love to understand the decision making more and without asking one of you to talk me through every snap this Sunday (!!@), is there anything anyone could help me with? And finally, is there any fairly simple strategy that I can follow like: If offense playing formation x, pass play, then do this with the defense etc Id appreciate any help here as I really wanna take it to the next level of understanding the sport. Thanks in advance 
Joe |
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| posted: 2020-11-21 00:36:22 (ID: 100154633) Report Abuse | |
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Well damn, you ask a lot of different things....
I think I have answers for a few of them: 1 - this really depends, you cannot really quantify it this easily. Coaches analyze matchups, formations, weaknesses of the opposing teams. Of course, you try to play towards your strenght, but you should always look for tendencies, like what does the opposing team call if they see a certain setup, do they blitz, do they drop back, etc. Some QBs audible a lot, like Peyton Manning was notorious regarding this. Aaron Rodgers, at the end of the McCarthy era in GB overruled 1 out of 3 offensive play calls at some point, which is an insane amount. 2 - look at point one, with the added extra of "can my QB reliably throw all over the field?" asked. For example, Mahomes, Allen, Rodgers surely can. Trubisky? Nnno. Wentz? Mechanically yes, consistently no, not this season. You have to take it into account, because if you force it and it backfires, there's a chance it has lasting consequences down the line for the confidence of said QB. Also, certain plays need time to develop, which requires the OL to be able to give time to the QB. Certain teams cannot pressure certain OLs, other teams can. 3 - so, the defense always try to figure out, based on the inital play setup of the offense, that if the play is going to be a run or a pass. Run is relatively simple, inside or outside, which whole, is there a FB, what tendencies show. If it's passing, is there a blitz called, who drops back, who are the primary passing targets, who covers who, is there someone in motion, overloaded side (Jumbo formation for example). Then they try to track the eye motion of the QB, if he stares down his target, goes through the reads. This also depends on which part of the defense is stronger, front seven or secondary. A really lopsided example would be the Suh-Fairley led Detroit defense a few years ago, when they dominated the front seven, no one really could run against them, but the secondary was ass. They always relied on the front seven providing enough pressure before the secondary inevitably broke down. The personnel always decides what a coach can implement. You can see clearly this season, not even Belichick could salvage what was left of the Pats (not really his fault IMO). About the QB thing you have mentioned: those QBs are all pretty mobile, which seems to be a requirement nowadays. I'd still categorize those guys differently. I'd say Rodgers, Wilson, Mahomes are not really run option guys, just scramblers. Murray, Jackson are true dual threat guys, maybe two of the better ones in recent memory. Newton was a different kind of dual threat QB, but he was one as well (check some clips of how Newton runs and Jackson runs, it's not even comparable). |
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Amhaja
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posted: 2020-11-21 10:58:36 (ID: 100154637) Report Abuse |
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Thanks for the reply. Brilliant English too (you're Hungarian right?)
You clearly know your stuff!! Is there somewhere that provides a really basic guide to how to counter things? I know the basics (if defense have weak secondary, then pass etc), but what about coverage - I have read lots about man or zone. I understand the idea but never sure why/ when some teams choose one than the other? Also with blitzing - I understand that it's when lbs or even secondary come storming towards the QB, but is that just when they predict a pass.... and surely if a pass is predicted won't the pass go over them and therefore they're better staying in zone coverage?? |
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| posted: 2020-11-21 17:12:52 (ID: 100154653) Report Abuse | |
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That's very kind of you, but I'm nowhere near as knowledgeable about this as you gave me credit for. There are many many great YT channels where you can learn a lot of things about everything that might interest you. Yes, I'm hungarian and no, I never even sat on a plane in my life.
It's interesting what you asked about. The game engine here misses this, but if you watch football, which you said you do, you could've noticed really interesting changes in the last decade or so. Historically, pressures and coverages started to gain real traction in the modern era of football, but this was really the time when certain game-changing players gave precedent of what can be done and how effective certain things can be. Let me provide an example right up: Lawrence Taylor. Before he gained notoriety, OLBs didn't rush the QB, they just dropped back and that was all their role, pretty much. The opposing coaches HAD to adapt vs. him, so they invented the H-back position, to let them handle the unique situation. From then on, OLB as a position went through a huge reformation and became what we know today, over time. Let me give you a tactical-based one: The 2 tight end formation of the Patriots, from 2010 and onwards. It was revelational, in many different ways. Nobody have played against anything similar, so no one expected it. The usual personnel of defences couldn't even handle it usually, as most LBs and CBs were inherent mismatches to TEs in the passing game (hence why it became a must for LBs to be considerably faster than before and CBs became bigger). Also, at the time, quite a few of the better teams used base 3-4 defences with heavy blitzing (Ravens come to my mind instantly) and this formation is a counter to both of that, as it splits the formation and targets the inherently bad middle matchups, as no one could anticipate those TE routes at the time, not that any LB was a match for Gronk, Hernandez or even 2nd string TEs. All this directly influenced not just what alignments can setups can work, but also what qualities certain positions must transition towards. What you see nowadays is how interior pass rush gained a lot of traction, with Suh, Donald and the others. Guard became a position of value, and it's not sufficient anymore to be just a stout run-blocker, with added benefit of being a good lead-blocker, but being reliable in pass protection became a must as well. About man or zone coverage: this is mostly decided by the defensive coordinator/head coach. These people usually are experts at one or another and to implement it as best as they can, they usually collect the required personnel. This is why it's pretty common to kick a lot of perceived good defensive players as soon as there's a new coaching staff in town. Switching from base 3-4 to 4-3 (or the other way around) is usually the other main reason (as the players of the front seven are asked vastly different thing to be able to handle in them). |
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Amhaja
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posted: 2020-11-22 09:35:35 (ID: 100154713) Report Abuse |
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Private message returned...
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JonnyP
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posted: 2020-11-23 09:58:54 (ID: 100154765) Edits found: 3 Report Abuse |
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I'm still playing catchup with a lot of current NFL schemes and some of the terminology, but I learned the basic strategies in 2 ways...
When I 1st got into the sport I got an NFL boardgame, and that taught me the importance of individual matchups - yes it was highly simplified but the keys to winning were: - win the key matchups for the play you are running - try to outguess your opponent, while at the same time not taking *too* many risks Then in my late teens I played the sport for real at University (Leeds Celtics!) and studied the playbooks. Obviously our players were very casual, nowhere near as fit as the Pros, but we still had to factor in the issues of matchups, and playing the game to our strengths. With less practise time, rough muddy fields, and Yorkshire weather, it was very difficult to get the precision for an effective passing game. Our team was in its infancy - most players were totally new to the sport, and the coaches had some knowledge, but nothing close to US standards. Thus our offense leant on the run heavily. We had big strong OTs, and smaller more mobile OGs. I started at FB for a while solely due to the fact that Lead Blocking was my strength, and we ran a lot from the I and Proset formations (something that riles me about RZA is the fact that outside runs in RZA from the pro-set don't employ the RB blocking skills, as that was my most common job). I'm only 5'6", and weighed about 170 pounds, so I was like a solid little bowling ball, hitting big guys very low to bring them down... which sadly made me unpopular with opposing DE/LBs. I made the mistake of chop-blocking Sheffield's best DE, a physical monster by US college standards, who proceeded to target me on several subsequent plays (ignoring the ball carrier), and sent me flying about 10 feet backwards on one occasion - damn that hurt!! Defense was our strength though, and Linebackers were the key - we had a couple of good ones who had played a lot of youth American Football who could read the game well. Blitzing was rare, it was more about reading the gaps, shedding blocks and getting to the ball carrier. As we were a new team in 1990, most of our players were total rookies 0 but by 1992/3 we'd still got mostly the same core. Our coach, and one of our best LBs spent their 2nd years on placement in the USA, and came back for the 1992/3 season. The LB had moved to play QB in the USA, and the coach had learned a few tricks. We also had an American student join us who had played WR at a small US college... we suddenly began passing very effectively and made it to the college bowl that year - losing to a very good Southampton Uni team. Sadly for me, my role diminished, as we mainly employed a spread formation, and I was appalling as a receiver, so I moved to special teams (where I led the team on tackles) and played a bit of CB, though my lack of height was a problem. Our playbook was still very simple though, it had to be. And the opposition still mainly used the ground game. The coach and QB were on 4 year courses, and stayed for 1 more season. The success of 1992/3 attracted some good athletes to the squad in 1993/4, and we eventually went on to win the College Bowl in 1996 playing an expansive game. Me, I had graduated in 1993 and was no longer eligible to play - I was the stats man until I left Leeds in 1996  Last edited on 2020-11-23 10:09:50 by JonnyP |
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Amhaja
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posted: 2020-11-23 21:49:17 (ID: 100154782) Report Abuse |
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pm sent
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