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Main / Bug reporting / Player no longer in the game after injury Search Forum
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JohnHW
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posted: 2024-06-21 06:52:49 (ID: 100184714) Report Abuse
Pete's first point was essentially that the game engine checks the substitution rules at a point when a substitution would be made and not before every play.

In this case the first stringer had a forced substitution at the point they were injured. If the second player never reaches a substitution point because their energy didn't drop to the level set in the match settings (At which level of Fitness / Energy you want start to substitute your players?).

This means that the "check for first string" algorithm was never triggered so the reverse substitution never took place.

Pete's second point was that if you set that substitution energy level high then that check is made more often. One's players will then be checked against it more often. Of course everyone in ever position cycles faster at that point and this may not be what is desired for other reasons. My players generally cycle fast enough to play a fairly even number of snaps across a game.

In summary, if you don't want this to happen to your first stringers, set the substitution energy level high rather than low. It won't force the first stringers to be subbed out, but it will get them subbed back in after injuries.

Dumbarajko wrote:
I still don't get it.

Players marked as first string are by the rules:
"If you tick the "first string player" tick-box, this player will be preferred by the engine, no matter what else you set for substitutions in your depth chart or match-settings. If more than one player has the settings active, the engine will pick the first-string player having the highest in-game energy. The only chance for a substitution by using non-first-stringers is then if the first-string-players gets injured."

If I understand right first string player got injured, replacement came in since it must came in, first string player recovered from injury and never got back in the game.

In my experience first string player plays all the snaps if he is healthy all the time no matter what other settings are. And he always immediately come back to the game after recovering. No matter how low his PC is and what are rules for substitutions.

So really don't get it why Kottan player hasn't came back to the game.
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Dumbarajko
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posted: 2024-06-21 07:17:36 (ID: 100184716) Report Abuse
JohnHW wrote:
Pete's first point was essentially that the game engine checks the substitution rules at a point when a substitution would be made and not before every play.

In this case the first stringer had a forced substitution at the point they were injured. If the second player never reaches a substitution point because their energy didn't drop to the level set in the match settings (At which level of Fitness / Energy you want start to substitute your players?).

This means that the "check for first string" algorithm was never triggered so the reverse substitution never took place.

Pete's second point was that if you set that substitution energy level high then that check is made more often. One's players will then be checked against it more often. Of course everyone in ever position cycles faster at that point and this may not be what is desired for other reasons. My players generally cycle fast enough to play a fairly even number of snaps across a game.

In summary, if you don't want this to happen to your first stringers, set the substitution energy level high rather than low. It won't force the first stringers to be subbed out, but it will get them subbed back in after injuries.


That is not how first string works.

When is healthy and there is only one first string at that position he must came back to play, because first string overrule any other rules.

When you have more than one first stringer and only one can play on that formation (for example RB) than one that plays is one that has energy higher than settings (for example first one has 79%, second one has 84%, limit is at 80% than the second one would play).

So in my experience over a lot of seasons first string must play when healthy regardless what other settings are.
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JohnHW
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posted: 2024-06-21 10:29:25 (ID: 100184717) Report Abuse
Dumbarajko wrote:

That is not how first string works.

When is healthy and there is only one first string at that position he must came back to play, because first string overrule any other rules.

When you have more than one first stringer and only one can play on that formation (for example RB) than one that plays is one that has energy higher than settings (for example first one has 79%, second one has 84%, limit is at 80% than the second one would play).

So in my experience over a lot of seasons first string must play when healthy regardless what other settings are.


It's software so it's not only a question of 'what is the rule?' (all available first string players are selected above all available not first string players), but also 'when is the rule checked?'.

You state that the rule is checked before every play. Pete says that it is checked when certain trigger events occur.

How often in those years have you run into a situation where the first string is injured and a not first string is subbed in and then the first string recovers from the injury and have then checked whether that first stringer comes immediately back into the game on the next possible play? Have you varied your substitution energy limit to test whether that makes a difference to this specific scenario?

If you have checked every game through those years where you have first string and non first string players then, wow! It wouldn't cross my mind to even look for this detail.

If you haven't then you don't know for sure whether it has occurred to you over the years, even for a few occasional plays.

What I don't know is the substitution energy limit set by yourself and by Kottan. If it was set to 90% then either his offence was never on the field in H2 (so very little energy loss) or this isn't the issue. If it was set to 10% to ensure very few substitutions then I think that this is a perfectly possible outcome.
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Dumbarajko
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posted: 2024-06-21 11:21:02 (ID: 100184718) Report Abuse
JohnHW wrote:
What I don't know is the substitution energy limit set by yourself and by Kottan. If it was set to 90% then either his offence was never on the field in H2 (so very little energy loss) or this isn't the issue. If it was set to 10% to ensure very few substitutions then I think that this is a perfectly possible outcome.


Once again manual says

"If you tick the "first string player" tick-box, this player will be preferred by the engine, no matter what else you set for substitutions in your depth chart or match-settings. If more than one player has the settings active, the engine will pick the first-string player having the highest in-game energy. The only chance for a substitution by using non-first-stringers is then if the first-string-players gets injured"

Bold part says it all. And manual should be something that is correct, right?

And my experience is just like that.

Did I checked all the games? Sure no.

Did my first string came back after injury in the games that I watched live (and I watched a lot), yes he did.

Probably Kottan done something wrong in his depth chart that made first stringer not come back to play, but if you do all by the rules manual is the one I trust.

And it says first string plays no matter what are other settings



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Kottan
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posted: 2024-06-21 21:06:27 (ID: 100184721) Report Abuse
I've been playing this game for 13 years and I've never had this problem before. That's why I reported it as a bug and for me it is one.

But I had set up the affected OC in the same DC as STBL. I've learned from it now and deleted ALL OCs from the DC of STBL if Pete says it is NOT a bug and the program requires it. If the same thing happens again, I can only report it AGAIN.
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pete
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posted: 2024-06-21 21:28:21 (ID: 100184722)  Edits found: 1 Report Abuse
Just to make sure: we are not talking about a special team play, do we? Whe I was refering to wrong set DCs I did not talk about that Special Teams parts, but normal ones. Background is, that if you have the same person on another (no special team) position set as well, he was "on field" already ...

Last edited on 2024-06-21 21:30:01 by pete

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Radu91
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posted: 2024-06-21 21:42:40 (ID: 100184723) Report Abuse
Kottan wrote:
I've been playing this game for 13 years and I've never had this problem before. That's why I reported it as a bug and for me it is one.

But I had set up the affected OC in the same DC as STBL. I've learned from it now and deleted ALL OCs from the DC of STBL if Pete says it is NOT a bug and the program requires it. If the same thing happens again, I can only report it AGAIN.


After your player recovered from injury he played OG/L meaning he was in the depth chart at OG to. Acording to the Manual-Formations the order in which they are picked is OT/L; OT/R; OG/L; OG/R; OC.
So if your OC is in the depth chart at OT or OG, that will be the first option for the game engine to pick. Leave him only as OC with the ticked box and he will always be your 1st string OC.
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Dumbarajko
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posted: 2024-06-22 05:05:03 (ID: 100184725)  Edits found: 4 Report Abuse
Radu91 wrote:
After your player recovered from injury he played OG/L meaning he was in the depth chart at OG to. Acording to the Manual-Formations the order in which they are picked is OT/L; OT/R; OG/L; OG/R; OC.
So if your OC is in the depth chart at OT or OG, that will be the first option for the game engine to pick. Leave him only as OC with the ticked box and he will always be your 1st string OC.


This make sense, thanks Radu for explaining.

Scenario would be something like:
Schmidt was on depth for OG from the start but not set as first string and he is second (and the last) on OC depth
Angel was a first string at OC and he was not first string for OG, he was third on OG depth
Replacements are set somewhere at like 85%
Angel gets injured and two OLs play each 2 snaps at OC but they are not on depth chart, they are picked randomly since Schmidt is picked for OG
Schmidt gets his energy lower than 85%
Angel recovers
Since Schmidt is lower than 85% Angel starts playing at OG
So Schmidt must play at OC as there is no one else on DC after picking Angel at OG
Schmidt never gets his energy above 85% so Angel must play all snaps at that position since he is last one on DC as OG
And Schmidt must play OC till end of the game since Angel is busy playing at OG

There you go, something like that is what must have happened.

And the first string rule would play if Schmidt was first string on OG

Last edited on 2024-06-22 08:03:26 by Dumbarajko

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Radu91
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posted: 2024-06-22 05:49:25 (ID: 100184726) Report Abuse
Your welcome
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