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| Main / Discussions / Intentionally Losing Search Forum | |
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sh8888
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posted: 2012-05-09 15:23:28 (ID: 39060) Report Abuse |
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Yes, this isn't a new topic, I seem to remember Solana_Steve raised it a few months ago, but as this is the discussions forum, let's discuss it ! ...
I just recently noticed one team ( I won't name it) that lost last season's promotion/relegation game heavily. To a Bot team (i.e. intentionally lost). This season the team was still in a 2.x league, had a 15-1 league record, a 13-2 supercup record, but eventually lost in the promotion/relegation match (again).....against a Bot ...AGAIN. This is obviously a case of a team that wants to stay forever in 2.1/2.2. Why would you want to do that ? I can't explain it. But as things stand, this team could do the same forever, i.e. have a good season then deliberately not promote ...it's not against the rules, but in my opinion it just seems absolutely wrong. I also spotted another 2.x team losing against a Bot in the promotion/relegation game .... I checked the Gamestats and I'm 98% certain this was an intentional loss. Third example .... a 1.1 Team with a 1-15 League record, and a 11-4 Supercup record..... and plenty of telltale signs to suggest that the league losses were intentional. Out of the 3 above, I think they're all losing intentionally, but for different reasons. The first team seems to lose twice in a row in the promotion/relegation playoffs in order to forever stay in 2.x . The Second team, is a newer team and I think the manager isn't confident about surviving in 1.1, therefore loses in order to stay in 2.x for another season. The 1.1 team is losing intentionally either to be able to return to 2.x or to get better Draft picks, or both. So .....suggestions ? Preachie suggested maybe limiting attendances in 2.x to say 60-70,000. I'm not so sure, as I think that penalizes all 2.x teams, amd makes it harder for 2.x teams to compete with 1.1 teams. My suggestion would be a "one-off promotion bonus" of say $20 Million. This would be an incentive to promote, but it would have conditions attached i.e. the bonus is only paid once to a specific manager/team combination. The reason for this is obvious ....I don't want teams to promote in order to gain a bonus, then deliberately relegate, then promote again to just keep getting the bonus. Perhaps this "promotion bonus" could be combined with a reduction in attendances in Div 2.x league matches, but along the lines of max attendance of say 125-130,000. btw ...please don't ask me to name any of the teams/managers, I won't do that for obvious reasons, I'm not suggesting that any of these teams has broken the rules, they clearly haven't. Anyway, feel free to discuss and make some alternative suggestions etc. |
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preachie
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posted: 2012-05-09 15:41:30 (ID: 39062) Report Abuse |
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In general I don't care if managers decide to lose intentional or not. They do not harm anybody doing that, so it's fine.
But in my opionion there should be a significant difference of being a first league team or not. So what could that be? First obviously the attendance. Normally a second league match won't have the attendances like a first leage match. I would guess that in the German Football League the attendaces of GFL2 (second league level) to GFL (first league level) is maybe 50% or even lower. Second: Sponsors. As a company I wouldn't pay the same amount for a second league team than I would pay for a first league team. Third: I won't get the best players since the good ones want to play in the first league (this might be difficult to implement, however I'm currently in brainstorm-mode and don't care about implementing - just gathering ideas  )
As mentioned before, I don't see any urgency in this topic, if I want to lose intentionally I should be able to do so, but maybe it would increase a bit the realism factor when there would be significant differences between 1.1 and 2.x (and 3.x later). |
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CaptAwesome
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posted: 2012-05-09 16:10:23 (ID: 39064) Report Abuse |
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There seems to be an issue here. I find myself in a similar situation as the 3 teams described above as I feel there would be a benfit for my team to be in 2.1 rather then 1.1. As far as I see it there absolutely no benefit for my long-term success to get promoted(which I did btw). Just the opposite I am sure it would only hurt me.
Now you'd say 1.1 is much more fun because of the competition but I'd disagree. I am gonna get absolutely slaughtered there. Sure I can beat few bots but that wont help me have much fun. Might as well go for the 1-15 tactic. I am not sure what should/can be done but I too believe there should be some advantage about being in the top division. |
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Sisko
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posted: 2012-05-09 16:15:46 (ID: 39065) Report Abuse |
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Keep in mind, that there will be voices saying: "The rich are getting richer." "The gap is getting bigger." "Only fun for the established teams."
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sfniner08
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posted: 2012-05-09 16:36:16 (ID: 39069) Report Abuse |
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Hey, if they want to dwell in 2.1 or 2.2 that is their issue I suppose. Although I have to wonder about their mental make up. IF it is a case they want to stay there just to earn conference trophies and beat up on teams then they must have some sort of problem. lol. Why would you not want to play against the best? Why hide from them? Perhaps they are cowards? I challenge them to man up and play us!
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Ranagol
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posted: 2012-05-09 17:26:42 (ID: 39071) Report Abuse |
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I have to agree with preachie, there are a lot of differneces between leagues of higher and lower level.
Lowering attendance is a good start, but fixing it to a max of 60-70% for 2.x leagues is unfair. Why? Because there are teams that do this in the 1.1 leagues to relegate back to 2.x, and the penalty wouldn't affect them. I suggest an attendance penalty system that grows the more matches a team loses in a row, down to something like 40%. So something like: 1 lost game: max. attendance 95% 2 lost games in a row: max. 90% 3 lost games in a row: max. 85% 4 lost games in a row: max. 80% etc. Having a level 20 PR means he can somewhat a l t e r these numbers, by say +5%. Since fanshop sales are linked to attendance, all the better. Who would want to buy a team's gear when all they can show for it is loss after loss after loss? Last edited on 2012-05-09 17:50:43 by Ranagol |
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preachie
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posted: 2012-05-09 17:41:05 (ID: 39072) Report Abuse |
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Ranagol wrote:
Having a level 20 scout means he can somewhat a l t e r these numbers, by say +5%. I would say for that a level 20 PR guy instead of scout would be the right one
Beside that I still believe 2.x should have a lower overall attendance 
By the way, forgot to mention that I'm in 2.1 so it would affect me too! |
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Ranagol
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posted: 2012-05-09 17:49:36 (ID: 39073) Report Abuse |
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preachie wrote:
Ranagol wrote:
Having a level 20 scout means he can somewhat a l t e r these numbers, by say +5%. I would say for that a level 20 PR guy instead of scout would be the right one Oops! You're right, I meant a level 20 PR guy.  |
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huskerbrave
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posted: 2012-05-09 22:56:34 (ID: 39096) Report Abuse |
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Ranagol wrote:
I have to agree with preachie, there are a lot of differneces between leagues of higher and lower level. Lowering attendance is a good start, but fixing it to a max of 60-70% for 2.x leagues is unfair. Why? Because there are teams that do this in the 1.1 leagues to relegate back to 2.x, and the penalty wouldn't affect them. I suggest an attendance penalty system that grows the more matches a team loses in a row, down to something like 40%. So something like: 1 lost game: max. attendance 95% 2 lost games in a row: max. 90% 3 lost games in a row: max. 85% 4 lost games in a row: max. 80% etc. Having a level 20 PR means he can somewhat a l t e r these numbers, by say +5%. Since fanshop sales are linked to attendance, all the better. Who would want to buy a team's gear when all they can show for it is loss after loss after loss? If that was active when I was still in 2.1 I would have tried to avoid promotion. That only encourages teams to stay down. |
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oddball
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posted: 2012-05-11 10:35:16 (ID: 39385) Report Abuse |
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if i was new i would probably want to spend more than one season in 2.2 i feel that is a valid choice, but eventually u want your team to step up to the plate and go toe to toe with the big boys.
intentionally losing doesnt bother or affect me so let it be. |
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